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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark75H View Post
    Not all the racing V-8's were 3.5's. They were different sizes different years. I can quote the sizes and years later.
    If you could tell us that would be great.


    Ralph Musser
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  2. #32
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    Horsepower.....

    Quote Originally Posted by T2x View Post
    .....Willabee could say for sure as he was the only one on here privvy to the real numbers........
    Sorry to disappoint, but I wasn't really privy to the HP numbers. Racing didn't install a dyno until around 1973/74 and it was for the Tempest and Typhoon engines being assembled in the new Hi Perfprmance Products division. I had to send the powerheads we built to plant #2 in Oshkosh or to Dr. Morgans's group in Fondy to get dyno info, so I was told a number, but didn't actually see a number (now that I think of it, I guess that is being made privy ).

    We are going to disagree on a couple of these, but here's what I think they were:

    1250 SBP - 140
    1350 W.I. Stacker - 170/175
    Twister - 165/170
    Twister 1 - 170/175
    C6 - 190/210
    TII - 190/200
    TIIx - 200/210

    When we first started the racing division, we got short blocks from Fondy and assembled from there. No dyno testing was done and engine break-in occured on the boat or in a test tank. When we started building stackers, Plt. #2 had come up with better porting for more HP. That was when I got all of the assembly tolerences from engineer Roy Rauchel and we started building from scratch. Blocks got milled to the Plt#2 specs and were shipped to us. We deburred and measured, etc. I would send some of these back to Plt #2 for dyno testing. I'm not going jump up and down and slam my shoe on the table to convince you, but I sure seem to recall that Doug Hamilton, the foreman of that two cycle development shop, told me they dynoed at 170/175 HP.

    We sent the Paris/Berlin Twister powerheads to them for testing as well. We wanted to make sure what we were shipping over the pond was up to par because we sure couldn't do anything about a problem once we had arrived in Europe. I seem to recall Dick Lanpheer saying that they were 5/10 HP short of the stackers, but had a bunch more in the mid-range and were better short course motors.

    When we started building the C6, we sent them all to Dr. Morgan's group for testing. I definitely remember talking HP with him just before the Morgan City race. We sent about a dozen and I asked him to pay particular attention to two of them (the good ol' NED stuff). When they were finished he called with the results and told me the two I had asked him to watch were the cream of the crop. They had checked out at 207 & 209 while the others were in the high 190's.

    I don't recall a stated number for the TII, but it was a C6 with Tillotson carbs so it has to be about the same in terms of HP.
    Last edited by willabee; 03-11-2010 at 04:35 PM.

  3. #33
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    Well I'm glad my numbers are a bit conservative...it makes the OMC guys happy.
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  4. #34
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    OK, if there is that much difference between a Twister and T-1 ... can anyone explain where the power comes from?

    I have another question ... Do you think these numbers represent the average motor or the best of each model?

  5. #35
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    C6 - ned

    What was the difference in the C6 NED'S to make an extra 10 HP ?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldad45 View Post
    What was the difference in the C6 NED'S to make an extra 10 HP ?
    Willabee........
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark75H View Post
    I have another question ... Do you think these numbers represent the average motor or the best of each model?
    yes.....

    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
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    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
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  8. #38
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    Smile Evinrudes need love too..

    OWWWWWWW!!! T2X...Your tough on us Evinrude guys...But I do own a prime 1968 125 SS Merc thet's on my Switzer Playboy...Does that make it easier to like a 'Rude Guy? lol.... The Switzer Regatta is on Saturday July 17 this year at THE BIG BASIN MARINA in Channahon Illinois along the Illinois Waterway a little south of Joliet, hope you can make it and bring some friends... Tom Arambasich www.freewebs.com/switzercraftreunionregattas/

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 25ss View Post
    Wasnt a 1250 super BP a early version of the 1350 with the new style transfer port covers.
    The main diferance being the 1350 has the cast in lower starter mount.
    Dale
    That's true as far as the powerhead only goes. Of course the mids and lowers were different, and presumably the exhaust tuning in the mid (which probably didn't make a significant difference but maybe moved the powerband around a little)
    Membership upgrade options: http://www.screamandfly.com/payments.php

  10. #40
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    To add to Rich's first list.
    2.0 piston port champ motors were 250-260 hp, then there were the 2.0 S3000 behind the liner motor that made over 300, somewhere around 320 hp at 10000 rpm, and would turn 11k lap after lap.
    2023 TUFF 25

  11. #41
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    C-6?

    When I went to Mercury in the fall of '73, worked for Dr. Morgans group. I worked with Les Cahoun and spent some time running a C-6?, on the Dyno. It had Morgan carbs on it with 3 in to 1 straight pipes (1,2,3 in to 1 and 4,5,6 in to 1). It would pull 175 -180 depending on pipe size at 7000 -7200 rpm again depending on pipe size. Just my .02.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 194268 View Post
    When I went to Mercury in the fall of '73, worked for Dr. Morgans group. I worked with Les Cahoun and spent some time running a C-6?, on the Dyno. It had Morgan carbs on it with 3 in to 1 straight pipes (1,2,3 in to 1 and 4,5,6 in to 1). It would pull 175 -180 depending on pipe size at 7000 -7200 rpm again depending on pipe size. Just my .02.
    Sounds like Mertens' Kilo motor.........

    This also makes my estimates look more accurate......

    Willabee..... this indicates that the OMC's might have had more power than we thought, and it was the drivers that made up for that short fall........especially Jackie and Watermark.
    Last edited by T2x; 03-12-2010 at 10:46 AM.
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomaprilsswitzers View Post
    OWWWWWWW!!! T2X...Your tough on us Evinrude guys...But I do own a prime 1968 125 SS Merc thet's on my Switzer Playboy...Does that make it easier to like a 'Rude Guy? lol.... The Switzer Regatta is on Saturday July 17 this year at THE BIG BASIN MARINA in Channahon Illinois along the Illinois Waterway a little south of Joliet, hope you can make it and bring some friends... Tom Arambasich www.freewebs.com/switzercraftreunionregattas/
    It's on my calendar and some of the OFF guys are making noises about flying in..... if we're still alive by then.....
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  14. #44
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    Thumbs up Welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by 194268 View Post
    When I went to Mercury in the fall of '73, worked for Dr. Morgans group. I worked with Les Cahoun and spent some time running a C-6?, on the Dyno. It had Morgan carbs on it with 3 in to 1 straight pipes (1,2,3 in to 1 and 4,5,6 in to 1). It would pull 175 -180 depending on pipe size at 7000 -7200 rpm again depending on pipe size. Just my .02.
    Welcome to Scream & Fly 194268. What year were you in Mercury advanced research & what were you working on at the time?

  15. #45
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    Horsepower.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark75H View Post
    OK, if there is that much difference between a Twister and T-1 ... can anyone explain where the power comes from?

    I have another question ... Do you think these numbers represent the average motor or the best of each model?
    As the saying goes.....with all this hay and horsesh*t, there has to be a pony in here someplace!

    I only plugged in a 5 HP difference. We know the TI outperformed the Twister, so there had to be some more ponies in that powerhead someplace. I'm thinking the TI had an additional intake port and some increased effeciency in the exhaust log.

    My numbers are what I remember about powerheads built by the Race Team. That's part of what makes doing this a bit confusing. Using the 1350 W.I. Stacker as an example, seems that if the local racer bought a 1350 and it was 135/140 HP and then he bought a stack kit for it, he probably ended up with around that 155 HP you mentioned. However, our blocks were ported differently, and we did other thigs that resulted in more HP.....yet these two powerheads shared the same name.

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