Reeds

[racer]

How many would be interested in finding out how the top couple styles/type that Noah is going to test work in a 3.0 litre omc carb engine, not an overly radical engine but one in say the high 300 range. My dyno is fully computorized with 2 weather stations, the dyno operator opens the throttle and pushes a button, the computor does the rest. One thing to remember is making peak power is only good if the reed lasts for the job it has too do at the rpm it was meant to run, in other words one pull to 8500 ok second pull no good. I would want to average three pulls with all pulls done within set parameters and then inspect the reeds.

Option 2
I would say choose 3 manufactures and tell them how they will be tested/inspected and let them decide on what they want to send.

Let me know what you think as I would need to do this by the end of March as I start to get real busy by then.

[Charger200]

I Would wait and see the results of Noah's test and the reaction from everyone and their dog deffending someones failed reeds and the claims of unfair test conditions, befor you decide to take on another test.

Just my .02

Jay

[RBT]

Hell ya, a real dyno room with control and repeatability would be awesome to see.
Al what is your repeatability like?

[JWTjr.]

and I'll definitely read up. I did this on a "poor man's dyno" (read: a bass boat and 225-hp Mercury EFI outboard) for BWB a few years ago and almost got crucified when I reported literally zero change in rpm, speed or any other movement-based measurement, testing the way we always tested...same boat, same engine, same driver, same observer, same day, same weather, same waterway, same conditions...with at least 4 constant observers watching our every move.

"But your test wasn't fair!!!" "But you gotta throw more fuel at it or it won't wake up!!" "But you only turned 7000 rpm, to see a real difference you gotta turn it 9000!"...and on and on and on. It was comical.

Nonetheless, I value your testing and am definitely interested to see the methodology and of course the results.

Gimme a call sometime...it's been too long...

John

[jphii]

I'd like to see it Al

[racer]

Dyno will repeat close enough that a engine temp difference shows a power difference,If pulls are all started at a given temp (water/block/head) power will be within 1 percent. My boat show season starts Feb 18 and runs thru mid March. If Noah gets his test done and it still allows me time I will follow on a omc engine. Only ones I have not tested are Chris and Tony's reeds, i would start over using one given set in a fresh powerhead as a base line. One thing I have found on the dyno is it is sometimes difficult to see gains (except HP) as its hard to measure responce however it is real easy to tell the bad ones.

[hydro]

Al,

I would also like to see it.

Thankyou

[Raceman]

and I'll definitely read up. I did this on a "poor man's dyno" (read: a bass boat and 225-hp Mercury EFI outboard) for BWB a few years ago and almost got crucified when I reported literally zero change in rpm, speed or any other movement-based measurement, testing the way we always tested...same boat, same engine, same driver, same observer, same day, same weather, same waterway, same conditions...with at least 4 constant observers watching our every move.

"But your test wasn't fair!!!" "But you gotta throw more fuel at it or it won't wake up!!" "But you only turned 7000 rpm, to see a real difference you gotta turn it 9000!"...and on and on and on. It was comical.

Nonetheless, I value your testing and am definitely interested to see the methodology and of course the results.

Gimme a call sometime...it's been too long...

John

I'd be interested in it also Al......... VERY INTERESTED. My experience and opinion EXACTLY shadows what John posted here. I've believe and have always believed that if somebody finds SIGNIFICANT difference in top end power/speed from ONLY a change in reed material with no other changes, that somehow the test conditions are flawed OR some other condition is being inadvertently corrected in the process.

[phil blomquist]

id be interested for sure want to freshin up the reeds on 225 evinrude myself

[MattGreen]

I can't imagine any J/E people not being interested in your results. Keep us in the loop.

Matt

[Markus]

Al, no matter what happens to Noah´s test, I would be greatly interested in your results.

[Jay Smith]

That would GREAT Al as you have about the same dyno set up as Bush does...A state of the art DIGITAL SUPERFLOW DYNO !!!!!

Jay

[TDR_50]

We would all like to see a second test and opinion on reed testing. A third would even be better.
<O</O
Any of us that has run a proper dyno setup knows the value of proper testing. All of the testing parameters have to be kept at a absolute constant or the testing results are misleading. Also one of the testing parameters I do not see in a lot of dyno runs or even water testing is the exhaust gas temperature. Having the EGT exactly the same on every test is essential to a correct test. If one brand of reed flows more than another the jetting requirements change. If a brand of reed richens the fuel/air ratio and the exhaust temp drops you will have less horsepower. Re-jetting to get the same exhaust temp,(fuel/air ratio), that testing parameter is now correct and will result in a correct test. <O></O>
The biggest issue is that there are a very few of us that have access to all the proper equipment and testing facilities. Deliver a perfect motor combination to the end customer in a different location,(altitude, water density, air density, etc), and the end results change. Then they tune on it as time goes on. I can not tell you how many delivered motors, (short blocks), that customers complain about not being as fast as it should be, that I have had them drive over and install it on the dyno and readjust what they have done to get back to the same Horsepower figures. It takes a large amount of time, money, knowledge, equipment, driver ability, and setup to get perfect package. The second you get it something else changes and you are on the trail again.<O></O>
<O></O>
I am in the process of writing a complete reed document this year. It will be posted here and on a lot of other two stroke forums as well. I have accumulated all the information in the last 40 years that I have been involved in high performance two stroke motors. There is a lot to cover in the aspects of the reed valve. Material, cages, cage angles, tensions, designs, carburetion, fuel injection, crankcase pressure, crankcase volumes, compression & ratios, combustion chambers and designs, port timings, exhaust, etc. Every one of these engine components effect the outcome of the reed valve performance. This document will take some time to complete as I have very limited time to do so.
Tony Doukas
Tony Doukas Racing
Tactical Design & Research Inc.


Keep in touch with me and I will send some reeds to test.

[Tony Brucato]

That would really be great, Al! I've only compared the Boyesen reeds to stock and to CCM reeds. I've always had a hard time getting the Boyesens to last. The CCM reeds have been very durable in my motor and they have picked up a little RPM on my motor when comparing new Boyesens to new CCM reeds.
After they each have a couple of hours of high RPM use however, the Boyesen's performance seems to drop off from wear, chips, or fatigue.
So far, the CCM reeds have been more consistent in performance for me when they've seen similar usage.
I'm interested to see what the TDR reeds will do, as the Mercury guys report very good results with them.
It would be very interesting to see dyno numbers comparing new reeds to each other as well as re-testing them after enduring a few hours of use.
Thanks Al!

[YELLOWSS]

hell yeah test away..
i would love to see the difference in tuners on a 260, 280, or a drag one day.