Trim tabs....

[oldskier]

Fun is good

So is it still for sale?

UMMMM...not this year.

[Makinwaves]

Mostly because there are thousands of boats that run without them, so no need to increase drag.

Additionally, long years of experience tell us that if man built it, it will fail. What happens if a shock lets go at 90? I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S.

Apparently your long years don't help you understand how these smart tabs work. If you been paying attention you'd realize that you can run 90 WITH OR WITHOUT THEM. If one breaks, what's the difference. They not touching the water anyway. They flat with the hull or higher before you hit 30 mph. VERIFIED FACT. Yes, they actually fold up higher than the hull plane. They do very little at high speeds except help get you there smoother & easier.

I broke mine off, AND knocked a giant hole in the gearcase too. MY HULL NEVER WENT THAT FAST TILL AFTER THE ACCIDENT. Broke off shocks and all So you can take your panic stricken end of the world warnings and stick it back in your panties, sell your boat and go back home to mama before you contaminate the open mind thinkers.
Now that's off my chest.

Understanding the REAL problem is half of the solution. Addressing the issues one at a time may be difficult for some, but I assure you using the shotgun approach is not the way to go. What "I" have learned from this board on theory is we need less bow lift from the prop.
These hulls are definitely light in the front.
We are backing the trim angles down once reaching race speeds to maintain control. Most props lift the bow too much which compounds the issue at the lower problematic speeds. Those running WFO all the time report less of a problem. This is understandable, they out of the zone most of the time. Those who don't need WFO but 1% of the time have concerns.

We want to be in control of the bow by using our power trims and jack plates after we balance our fore & aft weights out. Balancing is easy. Just having a friend crawl out on the deck and or move about the compartment will this will tell what needs doing. Alone? Small hydroplane racers shift their own body weights considerably just by instinct. I used to hit the throttle, lean way out over the deck to get 'er planed off then scoot back in. In a Vking, you can drive from the left seat for a few seconds to check balance. When none of our observations pan out, we start with the bolt on crutches. (like tabs, foils etc)

It was noted that a cleaver style propeller could possibly solve this issue of too much bow lifting. I would like to think a simple off the shelf item like this could work. (KISS principal at work here) Who has tried this comparison and what are the results of the testing??? I have my reservations on surfacing style props for boats that often pull skiers & go for leisurely cruises, but I'll save that for later. I never see cleavers on normal boats around my place. Who runs cleavers on a regular basis? Anybody? We need education.

[transomstand]

Apparently your long years don't help you understand how these smart tabs work. If you been paying attention you'd realize that you can run 90 WITH OR WITHOUT THEM. If one breaks, what's the difference. They not touching the water anyway. They flat with the hull or higher before you hit 30 mph. VERIFIED FACT. Yes, they actually fold up higher than the hull plane. They do very little at high speeds except help get you there smoother & easier.

I broke mine off, AND knocked a giant hole in the gearcase too. MY HULL NEVER WENT THAT FAST TILL AFTER THE ACCIDENT. Broke off shocks and all So you can take your panic stricken end of the world warnings and stick it back in your panties, sell your boat and go back home to mama before you contaminate the open mind thinkers.
Now that's off my chest.

Understanding the REAL problem is half of the solution. Addressing the issues one at a time may be difficult for some, but I assure you using the shotgun approach is not the way to go. What "I" have learned from this board on theory is we need less bow lift from the prop.
These hulls are definitely light in the front.
We are backing the trim angles down once reaching race speeds to maintain control. Most props lift the bow too much which compounds the issue at the lower problematic speeds. Those running WFO all the time report less of a problem. This is understandable, they out of the zone most of the time. Those who don't need WFO but 1% of the time have concerns.

We want to be in control of the bow by using our power trims and jack plates after we balance our fore & aft weights out. Balancing is easy. Just having a friend crawl out on the deck and or move about the compartment will this will tell what needs doing. Alone? Small hydroplane racers shift their own body weights considerably just by instinct. I used to hit the throttle, lean way out over the deck to get 'er planed off then scoot back in. In a Vking, you can drive from the left seat for a few seconds to check balance. When none of our observations pan out, we start with the bolt on crutches. (like tabs, foils etc)

It was noted that a cleaver style propeller could possibly solve this issue of too much bow lifting. I would like to think a simple off the shelf item like this could work. (KISS principal at work here) Who has tried this comparison and what are the results of the testing??? I have my reservations on surfacing style props for boats that often pull skiers & go for leisurely cruises, but I'll save that for later. I never see cleavers on normal boats around my place. Who runs cleavers on a regular basis? Anybody? We need education.

Ok, I'll start a new thread tommorow:

NEED HELP!!! MY BOAT DRIVES ROCK SOLID AND DOESN'T CHINE WALK!!! SHOULD I INSTALL TABS TO MAKE IT STOP???

[transomstand]

I broke mine off, AND knocked a giant hole in the gearcase too. MY HULL NEVER WENT THAT FAST TILL AFTER THE ACCIDENT. Broke off shocks and all So you can take your panic stricken end of the world warnings and stick it back in your panties, sell your boat and go back home to mama before you contaminate the open mind thinkers.

Obviously, your boat never went fast, get back to me when you crack 62 on your borrowed GPS

[samari]

Glad to hear this Bernie, I hope you will be using it rather than selling now. would you say it planes quicker now?

[oldskier]

Chet, No comparison. Pete (Transomstand) might not like to hear it, and his boat may run rock solid without porpoise or chine walk, but I bet he could improve hole shot with tabs.

Then he could be like me, the human throttle cable, and change his screen name to "Transomsit"

[samari]

funny, I don't want to get into anything but I'm glad it worked for you and I will remember this in the future.

[oldskier]

In all seriousness guys, I KNOW THIS IS A CRUTCH. It worked for me. Kudos to those thousands of boats and drivers that don't need them and could make my boat stable without them. I hope we meet some day and you work your magic and I can throw away the crutches, but until then, don't hate me because I am mentally deficient. I am just pleased I can take my granddaughter for a fast boat ride.

Thanks, Bernie

[JWTjr.]

all these boats have something in common...they've been damaged (accident) or rebuilt (recored/transomed). It seems plausible that during the rebuild process something went wrong. I realize that those who've rebuilt hulls have gone to great lengths to ensure that the hull retained it's original shape during the process, but in these cases, perhaps that did not happen. Clearly something is wrong to make otherwise fine hulls perform badly when power is applied. I would be looking carefully at the running surfaces of these hulls and comparing them to others that are similar and of "known performance" (otherwise perform well).

John

[transomstand]

but I bet he could improve hole shot with tabs.

We tried them (fixed tabs) on our V-6 Vandal in 1981, they did help a bit launching the boat, but not a dramatic enough difference. We found we could pretty much accomplish the same thing with prop work.

I can improve my hole shot, but making passes for the camera at the Romp, I stayed with a 245 hp STV for the first 3-400 ft last year, which I found "acceptable".

It took 2 months work to replace my transom without removing the deck, it's highly unlikely I'll be drilling many holes in it soon.

[transomstand]

all these boats have something in common...they've been damaged (accident) or rebuilt (recored/transomed). It seems plausible that during the rebuild process something went wrong. I realize that those who've rebuilt hulls have gone to great lengths to ensure that the hull retained it's original shape during the process, but in these cases, perhaps that did not happen. Clearly something is wrong to make otherwise fine hulls perform badly when power is applied. I would be looking carefully at the running surfaces of these hulls and comparing them to others that are similar and of "known performance" (otherwise perform well).

John

I'm just a glutten for abuse, so I'll add another observation. The other common link I see in all these is inexperience. I'm sure some will be deeply offended, and trash me again, but it is true. The people who have had trouble, are new to the hull type, or just new to high performance boating.

[oldskier]

JWT and Pete, I think in my case and in Wizards, you may be right. I do not now or have I ever represented myself as anything other than a novice boat rebuilder. I learned a lot about resins and materials, and how to make them work together, but I know nothing about hydrodynamics or what makes a hull bottom work or not work. Wizard has gone as far as to use a laser to check the hull on his, but he has been clear that he did NOT rebuild it, it was done by a carpenter with an eye toward strength.

I had a PM from Scott at AFR suggesting putting a 1/4" high by 10" wide by 4" long 'lip' on the back of the strake where my tabs are. (Kinda like a SMALL built in tab).

I think he is right, I suspect the strakes outside of the pad should be hooked MINUTELY to prevent porpoising. Just didn't feel like derigging and flipping, rerigging and testing.

Pete, it sounds like your hole shot is FINE-THANK YOU! I was making a play on words, Transomstand-Transomsit...you know, like me sitting on the transom operating the throttle...get it?

John, I have not informed my wife yet but I may drag the boat to Jasper next month...if you are going to be there, I'd be tickled if you would take a look or even drive it and tell me what you think....

Bernie

[transomstand]

John, I have not informed my wife yet but I may drag the boat to Jasper next month.

Might want to get her in on that, before you announce it on the world wide web

[oldskier]

Might want to get her in on that, before you announce it on the world wide web

Thats why I said "MAY".... There are other factors including an on-call schedule at work that is still fuzzy. As far as the wife goes, I greased the skids pretty good two days ago on our 35th anniversary...bought her a new Chevy HHR.

[Riverman]

The other common link I see in all these is inexperience.

Yeah, but what about me? I AM A NOOB. (There I said it LOL)

I redid mine without a jig, but did not split the deck. My hull remained straight during the process so blueprinting consisted of repairing and sharpening the strakes and pad. Also repairing the damaged caused by a rotten core on a roller trailer with the rollers missing.

What about setup? I run a radical setup compared to most - 5" setback, propshaft well above the pad and a 30 cleaver. I have ZERO issues with either porpoise or chine walk. Sure it will porpoise sometimes but trim, throttle or speed adjustments will stop it. I have a Mazco cone by the way.

Why is this? Was mine redone THAT much better than the tabbers? Is my setup so magically perfect that there are no issues?