A future for the old dirty two stroke engine?

**Stitch King** · 04-23-2009, 07:20 AM

Lotus is working on a new two stroke which may actually be a "clean" engine. It's a wet sump sealed crankcase and uses Orbital Direct Injection.

They call it the Omnivore because it will run on just about anything due to variable compression.

Check it out...

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/23...at_geneva.html

**1BadAction** · 04-23-2009, 07:31 AM

a 2 stroke with all the downfalls of a 2s AND 4s, without the benefits of a 4... brilliant

**j_martin** · 04-23-2009, 10:05 AM

Both the new Black and White outboards (2 cycle) are just as clean as a 4 stroke, and pretty durned snappy too.

They'll be outlawed, because they don't take bailout money.

John

**Stitch King** · 04-23-2009, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by 1BadAction

a 2 stroke with all the downfalls of a 2s AND 4s, without the benefits of a 4... brilliant

I have no idea where you are coming from here with your 2 sentence fragments but please educate us as to what is wrong with the following:

1. They keep the oil in the crankcase so that's not getting burned/dumped into the environment.

2. 2 cycles have twice as many power strokes as a 4 cycle.

3. There is less friction loss in a 2 cycle because of the lack of valvetrain.

4. Lower weight due to the lack of a valvetrain.

5. Variable Compression Ratio to run assorted alternative fuels.

So yes if lower weight, more power, cleaner, efficient, alternative fuel engines are a bad idea then you are absolutely correct.

They should probably close up shop right now and stick to the same old way of thinking that got us to where we are at right now with current 2 and 4 cycle engines. That's a much better business plan and will carry them into the future well.

**150aintenuff** · 04-23-2009, 11:01 AM

ive said for years that an oil sump system on a 2 stroke would work and be the death of the current 4 strokes

**Stitch King** · 04-23-2009, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by j_martin

Both the new Black and White outboards (2 cycle) are just as clean as a 4 stroke, and pretty durned snappy too.

They'll be outlawed, because they don't take bailout money.

John

John,

Do the 4 cycle outboards run a three way catalyst to control emissions?

Not sure if bailout money will be the factor. Right now the hype is hybrid and alternative fuels. I certainly don't believe all of the hype but without being part of these popular causes they are cooked as the media is in full control of the idiots (consumers and government).

Ken

**Lockjaw** · 04-23-2009, 11:09 AM

I figure we have a while. Yes they can make everyone quit making new ones, but there are plenty of old ones out there.

Now if they strap a turbo on a light 4 stroke, I might have to look at that. I love turbo's, and those can be tweeked.

**1BadAction** · 04-23-2009, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Stitch King

I have no idea where you are coming from here with your 2 sentence fragments but please educate us as to what is wrong with the following:

1. They keep the oil in the crankcase so that's not getting burned/dumped into the environment.

2. 2 cycles have twice as many power strokes as a 4 cycle.

3. There is less friction loss in a 2 cycle because of the lack of valvetrain.

4. Lower weight due to the lack of a valvetrain.

5. Variable Compression Ratio to run assorted alternative fuels.

So yes if lower weight, more power, cleaner, efficient, alternative fuel engines are a bad idea then you are absolutely correct.

They should probably close up shop right now and stick to the same old way of thinking that got us to where we are at right now with current 2 and 4 cycle engines. That's a much better business plan and will carry them into the future well.

Well, since you want to be a dick head, I can play that game too. although, 1, and 5 I happen to agree with...

2. doesnt matter, it needs a crank driven supercharger to run, therefore, when the gloves come off it is at an immediate power disadvantage. this isnt a new concept, detroit diesel was doing it 50 years ago.

3. Friction loss? you're driving a high pressure orbital pump AND a supercharger AND an exhaust valve. that sucks more power than a simple 4s valvetrain ever could.

4. it lacks a "valvetrain" but still has a cam and a "port flap" - can you read? on top of that, a complete cylinder head assembly that MOVES. you think that clusterFK and all its sensors, controls, hydraulics, harness, etc, is lighter than a couple of valves and cam?

get real.

That abortion is an answer to a problem that never existed, 2 strokes are meant to be powerful, yet simple, and easy to fix. 4s should be quiet, easy on fuel, and ultra reliable... Like I said, all the problems of a 2s and 4s, with none of the benefits of either. The real problem is people forcing complicated **** down our throats when it isn't necessary (perf OBs) but no one wants to deal with that it seems.

**Steve 1** · 04-23-2009, 12:05 PM

Stitch this is not the grammar Forum! that is over with the granola muffin eaters. YOU lose big for those cheap shots!

**1BadAction** · 04-23-2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Steve 1

Stitch this is not the grammar Forum! that is over with the granola muffin eaters. YOU lose big for those cheap shots!

That's how it has been with tech discussion for a few years now.

If you post something that a person doesn't agree with, they try and find some flaw and rip on you for it... Its sad, and is why a lot of people stop or limit their posting of tech info.

**bigtis** · 04-23-2009, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by 1BadAction

That's how it has been with tech discussion for a few years now.

If you post something that a person doesn't agree with, they try and find some flaw and rip on you for it... Its sad, and is why a lot of people stop or limit their posting of tech info.

I don't know chit anyway

I do know Ally's are fast though

**Stitch King** · 04-23-2009, 08:37 PM

1bad- Thanks for the explanation. Nice to know there's actually some depth behind the fragments you originally spewed. Also you might want to edit your profanity.

Steve- I could care less what you think.

**jacklake2003** · 04-23-2009, 08:48 PM

Would you guys talk to each other this way in person, or just behind the computer? That's the problem with forums, everyone has a superiority complex! JFC, it's just someones opinion on a freakin motor, get a life!