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[The Big Al]

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Al

[Pro300x24LD]

screw gm, their suppliers and all the people it would affect in the us, let em fail.

[Wile E. Coyote]

I have a question, why is it only the big 3 in danger and need bailout, toyo, honda, nissan, vw all have facilities here in the us, for that matter why only certain financial institutes, insurance companies, brokerage houses,im not sayin to let them fail or not, thats a greater mind than mine thing, but why only some, mismanagement, bad luck, excessive executive salary, bonuses, unions? what gives?
seems to me, at least in v8 autos and trucks gm has had the fuel mileage thing a head and shoulders above the others

all of this bailout stuff seems to me to feed the problem, thats great, lets fix the credit market, so the banks can lend money again, yeah, to the same people who already cant pay it back, to me, (and im sorta guilty of this) people living over thier heads on credit got us into this mess....
ahh im just rambling, going back to the football game now...

[Pro300x24LD]

I have a question, why is it only the big 3 in danger and need bailout,

years and years of stupid union crap, unfair trade, poor management....

toyo, honda, nissan, vw all have facilities here in the us,

No union crap, limited assembly plants in us, strong overseas sales, better management? Not headquartered in US, so they wouldnt approach US with bailout request?

Couple guesses...

[Mark75H]

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Al

Propaganda

[DOORSHOT]

Some great points but gm is loosing in some estimates almost a 700 dollars a second. A big daunting task ahead for sure. The only way to make it happen and it needs to happen now is to cut the dollar per hour per union employee, bonuses and management pay, suppliers cost of goods,retired personnel expenses and a real town meeting where there is a emotional buy in to save this company.If the American taxpayers are going to pay for this bailout they need to buy in also and for most of them they have been speaking for years already by their purchasing decisions...I personally hope theat the company can be saved for the sheer fact it would be seen on the world stage as a significant blow in the economic viability of the Us and the impact on the psyche of the American public.

[Riverman]

If they are bailed out they will be back in a month asking for more. Why help them to keep building cars no one wants?

They have to go under, there is no other way. They will just come back stronger with no stupid union contracts and hopefully better managers. They could restart using the Toyota model and be successful like Toyota. Countless companies have gone under before and other, better companies have started up to replace them.

Don't get all hung up on a GM or Ford logo. We still need cars to be made and sold.

[Hydrophobic guy]

If they are bailed out they will be back in a month asking for more.

Just like a crack whore.

[JR IN JAX]

They need to do like Vought Aircraft in Tennessee. Get rid of the Union and hire replacements. Then they can not only compete, they can excel.

[Pro300x24LD]

They need to do like Vought Aircraft in Tennessee. Get rid of the Union and hire replacements. Then they can not only compete, they can excel.

There's no doubt that would be a great idea. But how?

[1BadAction]

Scabs rule.

[Hydrophobic guy]

Scabs rule.

Been there done that.

[Instigator]

the only thing that will fix any of them is bankruptcy.

They just said on Fox that with benefits GM is spending $71. per hr of labor Vs Toyota's non-unions $41. meaning GM is paying 73% more per lbr hr than the best Jap co (in terms of mnfg efficiency) for a product that is sold to the same perspective customer and advertised as a directly competitive product.
They CANNOT fix it and remain union. Period.

Here's a theory to consider after I watched them do this with a tier I supplier (GM DELPHI) in Cols, Ohio while I was still there and a previous customer of mine.
They (GM) went to the union for concessions which were of course rejected.
GM sold them at a fire sale and then with new ownership promptly went bankrupt.
GM bought them back w/o having to honor retiree's pensions and hired non union workers.
Bingo.

I spent over 7 yrs in the trench's selling assembly tools to "ALL" of the big mfg's and saw first hand examples of the differences between the wastes and efficiencies between union and non union plants and plenty of stories to tell about both.
Not a single good one about the unions.
In a nutshell the non union shops wanted whatever was best for their employers and customers.
The union shops did NOTHING unless you did something for them (union/workers) first and could care less about anything else.

As long as the unions are involved with the U.S. mfgs, they're (we're) screwed! This is not just my opinion and can tell some pretty ugly (disgusting) stories about absolute premadona mentalities in supervisors over entire departments.

[Blizz]

I agree with geting rid of the unions but it's very hard to get rid of them and keep them out. As a public company a few years down the road if someone tries to bring a union back a gets the support there's nothing they can do to keep it out.

[Wile E. Coyote]

im gonna stay out of the union yes or union no argument, there are very strong feelings on here both ways, but i will ask, to the pro union people, at what point (if ever) does the union recognize the need for change (neat word huh?) or concession in the face of certain demise....the fate of eastern airlines comes to mind....given the chance to do it over would all those unemployed (sometimes never re-employed) workers who setteled for much less pay and benefits with their new employer, have done it differently? seems the big 3 are gonna get that chance to find out....