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11-20-2008, 11:56 AM #76Screaming And Flying!
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That's cool RJ! Put a 100ci engine on it and let's race!!
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11-20-2008, 12:18 PM #77
thats what i was thinking!! once you get yours dialed in, which it seems to be, i can just pick your brain. maybe next fall there will be 2 vipers at the bobs drag with V4's. this one will be just for speed, i will have to get one of those seats you have. the vking will be for taking the girls out in.
1973 Viper - sold
1978 Viking - sold
1995 XB02
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11-20-2008, 02:25 PM #78
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11-20-2008, 03:50 PM #79
Geez RJ, You gonna live long enough to finish both of 'em?
OK, I got down off the porch and ran with the big dogs....kinda sore now....think I'll just lay here in the flowerbed for a while...
1976 Hydrodyne 18 I-O
1969 Allison 15R, 1973 Merc 1500 (project)
1995 Harris toon
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11-20-2008, 06:15 PM #80
Since you guys brought up the comp hulls again, I'm curious about the weight differential between the production model and a comp. Lets say for the sake of argument, my hull weighs around 550-575 lbs according to various different sources (hydrostream.org, etc etc)keeping in mind this hull is a '76 with no floatation. From what I've seen and read thus far, one could assume there can be a fairly dramatic weight difference between hulls depending on the builder that day, whether it was a monday or friday boat, change in production methods or materials during the production year and so on.
For the sake of argument and since I need to educate myself on materials when I start the core replacement, staying with a factory style 1/2" balsa core, how much could I effect the end weight of the hull simply by using a polyester, or vinyl, or epoxy, or go with a tall stringer and no floor similar to the comp, or no float box under the bow, or by adding more or less mat/cloth in high/low stress areas etc etc. Very general questions I know, but I'm expecting nothing more than general answers in return.
Does using a lighter weight construction material to achieve an overall lesser weight necessarily mean that a higher potential exists for a failure given a certain amount of stress or fatigue, as compared to a heavier layup or additional applications of mat, cloth, woven etc etc?
I guess what I where I want to be with the end product of the project is a hull that is significantly better than original which wouldnt take much mind you, is stronger and stiffer than the original layup, yet is either comparable to, or less in weight than it was when new. I'm sure i'm going to start a battle royale here on the 'right' and 'wrong' way to put a boat together but I'd like to hear different several different approaches on this....And if all the viper owners out there happen to know your hull weights, rigged or unrigged, share them including the year and any resto/ material information simply for a point of reference.
Jeff1976 Hydrostream Viper - 2.5 EFI
Resto Thread Here
2010 Go-Pro Stuff
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -G. K. Chesterton
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11-20-2008, 06:51 PM #81
I try to stay practical, because I'm not smart enough to be an engineer/boat designer. I never saw any benefit to knock yourself out to save 100-150 lbs in a lake boat. You can use more expensive materials to build a lighter laminate of equal strength, but can you get the engineering right? To me, build it heavier and "too strong". If the end result is a slow boat, add a bigger motor, it's a lot easier in the long run.
Living in the Freedom provided by Bud Conner and his fellow warriors.
R.I.P. my Heathen Brother
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11-20-2008, 07:09 PM #82
Rj if the viper is the one from edina it's not a comp I was going to buy it but found a different one. I was going to go and pick it up and try to resell it in the spring anyway.
I will hope to have a viper for bob's as well just not sure on power yet I have a couple motors I just needed a light hull.Chet Olson
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11-20-2008, 07:40 PM #83Screaming And Flying!
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You are in good company. Few of us have the knowledge to make severe design changes without knowing the initial design criteria, and expect favourable results.
Cored panels are an amazingly strong and light things. The failures you are seeing in the core are a result of producing the boats in a manner that kept them affordable. When you recore (if you do) you will only have to pay for materials - in other words you will get better results than new, because that's how you want it to be.
The Viper, as it is designed, is very strong and stiff, if the design features act as intended. In other words, if the core is done right, if the stringers are bedded in and wrapped correctly etc. the boat will by super strong. The only "improvement" to the design I made was to bed the stringers too tall and machine them down to the correct height to bond to the underside of the floor. And add transom knees.
I remember the first ride after the resto. I had not ridden in a boat that was that LOUD, a sure sign that it was SOLID.
I think the biggest weight saving I saw was removing the air tank. There was 1/2" of solid chop on the top and that weight was all in the worse place. I now have a thin footrest bulkhead in its place.
The layup schedule came from John Speath starting with a secondary bonding layer of Dow Derakane 8084, an etching resin. This was the only weight I purposely "added" to the boat
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11-20-2008, 07:41 PM #84Screaming And Flying!
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11-20-2008, 07:55 PM #85
I have a 85 hp suzuki 3 cyl I could throw on it. I have no idea what the cu is of that motor. But I do need to get going on the hull.
Jeff what and were did you get your vaccume pump for infusing?Chet Olson
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11-20-2008, 08:16 PM #86
Funny you mention that, when I first drove mine after the most recent core repair, I could hear every ripple in the water thumping on the hull, like driving fast down a road of pebbles. It quickly dawned on me, that I hadn't heard that sound since the boat was new, only much louder now, then when it was new
Living in the Freedom provided by Bud Conner and his fellow warriors.
R.I.P. my Heathen Brother
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11-20-2008, 08:23 PM #87There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing. –Aristotle
Quinten
86' Hydrostream Vking YT, 2.4 Bridgeport EFI
(Rigging and interior in the works)
88' Hydrostream Voyager, 2.4 200 Merc
Boat of The Month Feb. 2009
resto here, http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...d.php?t=144414
Dedicated to you Dad, I miss you! 1935-2008
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11-20-2008, 08:48 PM #88Screaming And Flying!
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I used a venturi generator that runs on compressed air. Pic of it on this page. I didn't invuse, just used a bag to pull the core down.
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11-22-2008, 09:27 PM #89
Well, I don't have much time this weekend due to military obligations but I thought about cutting in and around the pad today to see the condition of the core even though I already knew the answer. I cut the floor away over 2 weeks ago and found some moisture. It eventually dried up until I cut the small test patch outside the stringer and once left that way for several days, moisture resurfaced between the stringers! So there was VERY little core left and what WAS there, was in really bad shape, more so along the pad. On the bright side, cutting it apart will be a whole lot easier!!!
Notice all the moisture!!!
First cuts into outer pad core....
Almost NOTHING left in the pad and what was there was wet wet wet!
1976 Hydrostream Viper - 2.5 EFI
Resto Thread Here
2010 Go-Pro Stuff
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -G. K. Chesterton
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11-22-2008, 10:15 PM #90