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Thread: Merc V6 History

  1. #31
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    Jerry, what a spectacular addition your commentary is to this forum and we really appreciate your contribution here. There're a couple of things I'd like to ask for when you get the time for individual comments or questions and maybe these too will fall in place as you chronology continues.

    As far as Triechel (spelling?) I first met him on the phone when I was interested in collecting T4 stuff. (I have 3 complete T4's as well as some extra T4 & 3.4 EFI powerheads). Thriechel CLAIMED to be very involved in the T4 project and did seem to be very knowledgeable on them. He asked the displacement of mine, saying there were some built that were overbored and something like 3.7 or 3.8 liter. (I can't remember) He quoted some RPM numbers that they ran the sprint boats on, (can't remember that either) and said they replaced all the bearings including upper and lower ones, and rod bolts after every race because the big ole' rotating assembly would cause failure otherwise. He was also my first source of contact information with David Steckbauer who he suggested I call for my search for a #8 Speedmaster for the T4.

    Back to the 2 liter, or specifically the T3 I'd like to know for sure the chronology. I bought an 18' Sidewinder from a local dealer in 1974 and he had a picture of what was PROBABLY a Molinari on the wall with a T3 on it, the first I'd ever seen. Instead of having the red T3/1750XS stickers it had a large blue T3 on the sides of the cowling. Since this was already hung in '74 I would guess the engine was probably some kind of prototype from '73. We went to the APBA nationals at Miami Marine Stadium in 1975 and all the V6 Mercs on the factory boats had the red T3/1750XS stickers and I don't think any privateers had 'em yet. I've also always heard that the T2X was built AFTER the original T3, which would make sense, since it was basically a T2 powerhead on a T3 mid with a adapter. True or false on chronology?

    My dealer friend who also accompanied me to Miami that year for my first big time boat race claimed to work very closely with Carl Kiekhaefer in the 50's and early 60's, although I'm unclear as to what capacity. His name was Billy Dupree, and at the time he was based in Wisconsin. He later ran the proving ground in Sarasota. His son Wally, retired from Mercury also and now mid 60's worked at Sarasota as a teenager in the 60's basically as an endurance test driver and later at the distribution center in Atlanta as a service school instructor and later in warrantee. This was after the Duprees closed their dealership here in 1978. Wally has said on multiple occasions that when Merc was exploring the options on building a big inch race engine to compete with the V8 OMC that they built a V8 which was a 2.4 with 2 extra cylinders on top. He said that he has seen a running prototype in Wisconsin, but the engineers decided that the 60° firing order of a V6 was inherently more efficient than the 45° of a V8, possibly pertaining to the exhaust pulses. I've never caught him in a tale, but also have never run across anyone else claiming to have seen the V8 Merc. There were also some rumors of some prototype 3 cylinder loopers designed to compete in the Mod 50 class which was completely dominated by the OMC's, but that seems to be folklore also and until the time I quit going to the races OMC dominated everything in the 50 and 66 cu in classes.

    Thanks again for participating and if my chatter above is distracting from your topic feel free to ignore any or all of it.
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  2. #32
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    Fred Hauenstien confirms the 3 cylinder looper project, it was one of his jobs at Merc.

  3. #33
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    remember guys ...there was about a 7 year gap between the first V6 and the ill begotten 3.4 monstrosity...which was probably a bad project to begin with (it was too heavy for the existing center sections and lowers...and had a very limited consumer market...come to think of it so did the OMC V8's.....) The original toilet bowl manifold Bendix injected T-3's were magical alright, but this thread seems to be about developing the Black Max consumer motor...and not Les Cahoon's variations on that design.
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  4. #34
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    What an absolutely incredible thread. Welcome to Scream And Fly, Jerry - we are greatful to have you here and extremely excited about this thread. I've already bookmarked it even on my cell phone so I won't miss any replies.

    This thread has me really excited. Thank you for taking the time to post this fantastic material. This is the kind of stuff that we all share a great passion for.

    Greg Terzian


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  6. #35
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    Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us Jerry!!! Welcome to Scream and Fly.
    Bud Conner "Heathen" "Defending Our Constitution"

    FOR ALL ENGINE APPLICATIONS
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckid74 View Post
    I still have the hand written spec sheet (wish list) that Bob Johnson gave me back in Jan 1970. I tried to include a copy of it here but it ended up so small on the page you couldn't read it so I'll just copy it word for word
    OBJECTIVE: RAISE MAX. POWER 10% = 150HP.
    1. A 10% displacement increase seems inappropriate - affords no room for future increases, bore increase
    will increase deton. probs
    2. 20% displ. will fit the 2 liter class + seems like suitable amt.
    3. 2 7/8 bore (current 1350 size - ring etc) & 2.35" stroke (.050 more than M-1000) = 15.25 cu. in. 8cyl = 122 cu in
    6cyl = 91.5 cu in , 4cyl = 61 cu in , 2cyl = 30.5 cu in.
    4. Develop loop cyl. to avoid cross scavenged problems
    5. V configuration lends itself to loop cyl. spacing as does an O. P. --
    6. Capable of another 10% displ. incr. later - possibly bore only (3in. = 9%)
    7. Seek lightest weight & smallest package size

    That's it, exactly as given to me. So what was I to make of this? It's obvious that Bob is thinking - how can we get the greatest range of engines using the same piston, pin, rings, bearings, etc. Economy of scale, you know. But a 2 liter V8??? That didn't make sense to me. If we were doing this in part at least to be in a racing class (2liter), we certainly would want the highest horsepower we could get and that ment 2 banks of three cylinders with their inherent excellent power boost from exhaust pulse tuning. 4 cylinder banks don't give you this, at least not with any neat compact exhaust manifold. I'm not quite sure how I got Bob thinking my way. I believe I just kind of ignored the V8 thing and proceed on with my analysis of the inline 6, the opposed 6, and the V 6, and Bob never said anything more about it. (more later)
    Copy of the original document


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  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by T2x View Post
    remember guys ...there was about a 7 year gap between the first V6 and the ill begotten 3.4 monstrosity...which was probably a bad project to begin with (it was too heavy for the existing center sections and lowers...and had a very limited consumer market...come to think of it so did the OMC V8's.....) The original toilet bowl manifold Bendix injected T-3's were magical alright, but this thread seems to be about developing the Black Max consumer motor...and not Les Cahoon's variations on that design.
    Oh...o.k...we'll keep all that in mind chief...lol.

  10. #38
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    Exclamation Mr. Jerry Hale...

    Waiting patiently for your next installment Jerry. Don't want to ask any specific questions yet, as your chronologic input, I'm sure, will answer quite a few points. Great stuff.

  11. #39
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    That original document is a special piece of history and should be properly preserved. Thanks Jerry and thanks transomstand for the great repro. Wow!

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  13. #40
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    Thanks everybody for all your kind comments and encouragement. That really makes me want to put more time into this little bit of history. Now let's get into the meat of this design.
    Obviously we didn't want a big, wide, bulky looking cowl like others had on the market at that time (after all, our heritage was that nice, slim "tower of power" the inline 6) and to me, only 3 configurations held possibilities of getting us close to that; another inline, an opposed with the cylinders running fore/aft, or a narrow angle V (60 deg was the only logical choice). I must tell you that I was strongly in favor of the 60 deg. V6 right from the start. True, there wasn't as much room between the banks for the exhaust system as a bigger angle would give and a few other minor negatives but the even firing order, the tight pulse tuned exhaust system, the carbs right up front, and the exhaust neatly down the back, to me, was the right choice. But my boss said check out these other ones as well, so I did.
    In determining overall size, cylinder center distance is a major factor, and this wants to be kept as small as possible, that is if crankshaft strength is not adversly affected. I won't go into detail on that statement because loop scavenged cylinders, with their big teacup shaped handles sticking out on either side, generally provide plenty of room for crank web strength. Therefore I needed to concentrate on determining the shape and size of the transfers. Now I had never designed a looper before, in fact, my experience with cross-scavenging was limited to just the previous 5 years at Mercury, so I needed to improve my knowledge and decided to do that by obtaining and studying in detail the best loop scavenged engine I could find. The engine I decided on was the Husqvarna 360 motorcycle. This has a cylinder just about the same size as we'd be using in the 2 liter and from what I'd seen of it running in motocross races and enduros, I knew it had lots of down low pulling power as well as a broad torque band which were the characterstics I thought we wanted. So I ordered one and had it shipped to plant 6. When it got there I just had to take it out for a ride. I had my own 250 Bultaco Matador which I had ridden in a number of enduros around the state so I was comfortable on a dirt bike. But, wow!! That Husky was something else. If I was just tooling along in any of the lower 3 gears or so and grabbed a handful of throttle, that front wheel was coming up over my head in a hurry. I said, yea, that's what I'm looking for, lots of low speed grunt. BTW I read that this Husky was Steve McQueens favorite bike, I expect for the same reasons I liked it. (more later)
    Last edited by rckid74; 06-29-2013 at 09:03 PM.

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  15. #41
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    This is VERY cool!


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  16. #42
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    This is so awesome. Reading history from the or one of the men himself. I'm all ears ....lol or eyes
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  17. #43
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    This is amazing info thanks so much for sharing.

    Dave
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  18. #44
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    This is great! Please continue

  19. #45
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    Scribed. Killer info keep it coming!
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