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Thread: Merc V6 History
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06-28-2013, 08:29 PM #31
Jerry, what a spectacular addition your commentary is to this forum and we really appreciate your contribution here. There're a couple of things I'd like to ask for when you get the time for individual comments or questions and maybe these too will fall in place as you chronology continues.
As far as Triechel (spelling?) I first met him on the phone when I was interested in collecting T4 stuff. (I have 3 complete T4's as well as some extra T4 & 3.4 EFI powerheads). Thriechel CLAIMED to be very involved in the T4 project and did seem to be very knowledgeable on them. He asked the displacement of mine, saying there were some built that were overbored and something like 3.7 or 3.8 liter. (I can't remember) He quoted some RPM numbers that they ran the sprint boats on, (can't remember that either) and said they replaced all the bearings including upper and lower ones, and rod bolts after every race because the big ole' rotating assembly would cause failure otherwise. He was also my first source of contact information with David Steckbauer who he suggested I call for my search for a #8 Speedmaster for the T4.
Back to the 2 liter, or specifically the T3 I'd like to know for sure the chronology. I bought an 18' Sidewinder from a local dealer in 1974 and he had a picture of what was PROBABLY a Molinari on the wall with a T3 on it, the first I'd ever seen. Instead of having the red T3/1750XS stickers it had a large blue T3 on the sides of the cowling. Since this was already hung in '74 I would guess the engine was probably some kind of prototype from '73. We went to the APBA nationals at Miami Marine Stadium in 1975 and all the V6 Mercs on the factory boats had the red T3/1750XS stickers and I don't think any privateers had 'em yet. I've also always heard that the T2X was built AFTER the original T3, which would make sense, since it was basically a T2 powerhead on a T3 mid with a adapter. True or false on chronology?
My dealer friend who also accompanied me to Miami that year for my first big time boat race claimed to work very closely with Carl Kiekhaefer in the 50's and early 60's, although I'm unclear as to what capacity. His name was Billy Dupree, and at the time he was based in Wisconsin. He later ran the proving ground in Sarasota. His son Wally, retired from Mercury also and now mid 60's worked at Sarasota as a teenager in the 60's basically as an endurance test driver and later at the distribution center in Atlanta as a service school instructor and later in warrantee. This was after the Duprees closed their dealership here in 1978. Wally has said on multiple occasions that when Merc was exploring the options on building a big inch race engine to compete with the V8 OMC that they built a V8 which was a 2.4 with 2 extra cylinders on top. He said that he has seen a running prototype in Wisconsin, but the engineers decided that the 60° firing order of a V6 was inherently more efficient than the 45° of a V8, possibly pertaining to the exhaust pulses. I've never caught him in a tale, but also have never run across anyone else claiming to have seen the V8 Merc. There were also some rumors of some prototype 3 cylinder loopers designed to compete in the Mod 50 class which was completely dominated by the OMC's, but that seems to be folklore also and until the time I quit going to the races OMC dominated everything in the 50 and 66 cu in classes.
Thanks again for participating and if my chatter above is distracting from your topic feel free to ignore any or all of it.Membership upgrade options: http://www.screamandfly.com/payments.php
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06-28-2013, 08:59 PM #32
Fred Hauenstien confirms the 3 cylinder looper project, it was one of his jobs at Merc.
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06-28-2013, 09:44 PM #33
remember guys ...there was about a 7 year gap between the first V6 and the ill begotten 3.4 monstrosity...which was probably a bad project to begin with (it was too heavy for the existing center sections and lowers...and had a very limited consumer market...come to think of it so did the OMC V8's.....) The original toilet bowl manifold Bendix injected T-3's were magical alright, but this thread seems to be about developing the Black Max consumer motor...and not Les Cahoon's variations on that design.
20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
!6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
(Single engine boats are lacking something)
15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
(The exception proves the rule)
Obsolete and Proud of it
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06-28-2013, 11:15 PM #34
What an absolutely incredible thread. Welcome to Scream And Fly, Jerry - we are greatful to have you here and extremely excited about this thread. I've already bookmarked it even on my cell phone so I won't miss any replies.
This thread has me really excited. Thank you for taking the time to post this fantastic material. This is the kind of stuff that we all share a great passion for.
Greg Terzian
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06-29-2013, 05:16 AM #35
Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us Jerry!!! Welcome to Scream and Fly.
Bud Conner "Heathen" "Defending Our Constitution"
FOR ALL ENGINE APPLICATIONS
DRY Film Lubricant for Piston Skirts & Cranks + Thermal Barrier Ceramic Coatings for Piston Tops, Combustion Chambers, Valves etc !!
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06-29-2013, 09:53 AM #36
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06-29-2013, 11:59 AM #37The Historic Photo Master
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06-29-2013, 12:08 PM #38The Historic Photo Master
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Mr. Jerry Hale...
Waiting patiently for your next installment Jerry. Don't want to ask any specific questions yet, as your chronologic input, I'm sure, will answer quite a few points. Great stuff.
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06-29-2013, 12:18 PM #39Screaming And Flying!
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That original document is a special piece of history and should be properly preserved. Thanks Jerry and thanks transomstand for the great repro. Wow!
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06-29-2013, 04:50 PM #405000 RPM
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Thanks everybody for all your kind comments and encouragement. That really makes me want to put more time into this little bit of history. Now let's get into the meat of this design.
Obviously we didn't want a big, wide, bulky looking cowl like others had on the market at that time (after all, our heritage was that nice, slim "tower of power" the inline 6) and to me, only 3 configurations held possibilities of getting us close to that; another inline, an opposed with the cylinders running fore/aft, or a narrow angle V (60 deg was the only logical choice). I must tell you that I was strongly in favor of the 60 deg. V6 right from the start. True, there wasn't as much room between the banks for the exhaust system as a bigger angle would give and a few other minor negatives but the even firing order, the tight pulse tuned exhaust system, the carbs right up front, and the exhaust neatly down the back, to me, was the right choice. But my boss said check out these other ones as well, so I did.
In determining overall size, cylinder center distance is a major factor, and this wants to be kept as small as possible, that is if crankshaft strength is not adversly affected. I won't go into detail on that statement because loop scavenged cylinders, with their big teacup shaped handles sticking out on either side, generally provide plenty of room for crank web strength. Therefore I needed to concentrate on determining the shape and size of the transfers. Now I had never designed a looper before, in fact, my experience with cross-scavenging was limited to just the previous 5 years at Mercury, so I needed to improve my knowledge and decided to do that by obtaining and studying in detail the best loop scavenged engine I could find. The engine I decided on was the Husqvarna 360 motorcycle. This has a cylinder just about the same size as we'd be using in the 2 liter and from what I'd seen of it running in motocross races and enduros, I knew it had lots of down low pulling power as well as a broad torque band which were the characterstics I thought we wanted. So I ordered one and had it shipped to plant 6. When it got there I just had to take it out for a ride. I had my own 250 Bultaco Matador which I had ridden in a number of enduros around the state so I was comfortable on a dirt bike. But, wow!! That Husky was something else. If I was just tooling along in any of the lower 3 gears or so and grabbed a handful of throttle, that front wheel was coming up over my head in a hurry. I said, yea, that's what I'm looking for, lots of low speed grunt. BTW I read that this Husky was Steve McQueens favorite bike, I expect for the same reasons I liked it. (more later)Last edited by rckid74; 06-29-2013 at 09:03 PM.
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06-29-2013, 05:30 PM #41
This is VERY cool!
'95 STV "The Blue Goose"
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06-29-2013, 06:06 PM #42
This is so awesome. Reading history from the or one of the men himself. I'm all ears ....lol or eyes
Laser 1550 ...under construction with a serious weight loss
Motor 2.4....undecided on hp yet
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06-29-2013, 09:00 PM #43
This is amazing info thanks so much for sharing.
Dave1980 Cougar 19 tunnel,90 2.4L Bridgeport EFI in middle of restoration.
1988 BAJA Sunsport 186, 96 225 Pro Max
79 12' Auminum, 95 Merc 9.9
RIP Stu
"So many idiots, so few bullets"
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06-29-2013, 10:08 PM #44
This is great! Please continue
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06-29-2013, 11:13 PM #45
Scribed. Killer info keep it coming!
Sunsation 32 Dominator - 496 MAG HOs
Nothing runs like a Deere when a CAT's on it's ASS!