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Thread: Merc V6 History

  1. #16
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    Thank you sir and welcome to the site. This will be good.

    Rock
    Team Junk

    No sparkling wiggles in here, only dump truck grinches.

    "Screamin Heathen"

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  3. #17
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    Amazing, some of the most interesting, best reading I have ever had the privilege to enjoy here.
    please keep,it up.

    RT
    RIP RPM RACING
    RIP Galen Burden
    2011 ODBA PRO DRAG world Champions
    Triad River Rocket

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    Hi Jerry, looking forward to "the rest of the story". I see you started in March of '65 - I started in April of '65. Uncle Sam got me later in '65 and I didn't return until 1968, in QC over at Plant 4, then in '70 I took over as Chief Inspector at 4. I can still remember a fellow from Plant 6 that would come down with a metal toolbox with V6 cranks in it to get the flywheel splines added and then take them out to the Heat Treat building. Can't remember his name, drove a little car - his son worked dock endurance at 33. Bernie Bergen

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  6. #19
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    Wow, some cool info gonna be traded here for the archives!

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckid74 View Post
    Yes Fujimo, Keith and Ralph were both in my group at the start of the 951 (V6) project. I don't recognize the Triechel name though. He's not on the plant 6 honor roll of names either. This listing of names includes everyone that ever worked at plant 6 over the years and includes such notables as Carl Kiekhaefer, Charles Alexander, Charlie Strang, and several others listed as "Guest Workers", such as Tony Bettenhausen, Briggs Cunningham, Tim Flock, Bill France, Ted Jones, Jack Leek, Maury Rose, Red Vogt, "Gorgeous George" Wagner, Lee Wallard, Phil Walters, and Gar Wood Jr. Pretty impressive names, Huh. These had all been and gone before I arrived in March of 1965. Several of these were of course associated with Mr. K's car racing back in the 50's and there were remnants of those days still extant in the garages out back such as the car lifts, hot honing machine and valve grinding equipment.
    A couple of other names of guys that came into the V6 project shortly after it started are Ron Anderson and Joe Harrelson, both engineers who contributed much. You may be familiar with Ron because he's the guy that took the production "Black Max" and made it into the fire-breathing T4 race engine you have today. He later went on to have his own prop shop and marina out in Seattle. Joe went on to become a college professor at a school out in CA. teaching engine design. He also designed and built a large V4 engine used by a group to set a world motorcycle speed record a few years back.
    While I'm at it, I'd like to recognize several other people who played major rolls in the V6 project, it certainly was not a one man show. Robert "Bob" Johnson (RTJ) manager of outboard engineering and manager of plant 6 is the guy who gave me the list of requirements for the engine, which I listed in my previous entry. So I can only suppose he's the one that originated the "Black Max" V6 idea. It may have come down from higher up the ladder but I doubt it. Kiekhaefer was pretty much out of the picture by then (1970) and I doubt was even aware there was a new engine in the offing. I often wondered how he felt about the V6 later when he did find out about it. Probably wasn't happy about it displacing his "baby" the inline 6. Other contributors were Dick Lanpheer, our sound and vibration engineer who took over management of the V6 project shortly after it got started; Al Tyner, my board man who did all the detail design of the engine; Dave Kusche, who did the cowling design and worked closely with our stylist Art Miller, who did a fantastic job styling that original engine. I still think that was the best looking of all the "Black Max" cowls. Then there was Elmer Croisant, responsible for the undercarriage; Bob Schmeidel, electrical; and Jim Meininger, carburetion.
    I'll get on with the design next time.
    Great to hear those names again Jerry. You certainly created, in my opinion, the best piece of engineering that the name "Mercury Outboards" ever produced. You should know Bernie Bergen, although the empire was so big back then, it would have been easy for him to travel down another fork in the road & not cross paths. Bernie retired as an applications engineer, for sterndrives & outboards at the oem level, (Hi-Perf included)etc., just a couple years back. Thanks for all your retrospect.

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  9. #21
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    Wow, great info Mr. Hale. Just curious what degree of Vs did you consider in the origional design? Did the name "Black Max" come from the marketing department?

    Thank you-
    Last edited by SCT; 06-27-2013 at 07:03 PM.

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    Wow!!! I'm getting swamped with questions. I'm afraid that if I keep answering individual questions I'll never get back to the main story, so I think I'll just proceed on. Most of those questions will be answered in due time as part of the discussion.

  11. #23
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    Thanks Mr. Hale for great informative and interesting reading----- You've got me hooked! Gary

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  13. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by olboatman View Post
    Thanks Mr. Hale for great informative and interesting reading----- You've got me hooked! Gary
    I'm hooked too!!!!!!
    Thanks,
    Tim Bostic

    Hoss Marine Propellers
    www.hossprops.com
    918-479-5167 (shop)




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  14. #25
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    Wow, hot and exiting info indeed!

    Had just planned to go to the cottage for vacation. But with poor internet-access, maybe I must stay home to read?

    The only molecule of info I had of this so far, is someone loosely saying on this board several years ago that Ron Andersson started the design of the V6 in 1969. But now I guess that as well as other info will be put into an iteresting context. And did the decision for a looper design come already as an input from management? (And if so, an inline would have been taller than ever, right.)

    Reviewing the V6-Merc history today, I think its rather relevant to see it as the "Small Block Chevy of the outboard world". Me myself still hang on to my I/L6 but sometimes, when my mind go soft, Im considering pros and cons of a 150 ProXS instead of my 1988 I/L 115.

    With high expectaions (but please take your time!)
    Peter L.

  15. #26
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    I still have the hand written spec sheet (wish list) that Bob Johnson gave me back in Jan 1970. I tried to include a copy of it here but it ended up so small on the page you couldn't read it so I'll just copy it word for word
    OBJECTIVE: RAISE MAX. POWER 10% = 150HP.
    1. A 10% displacement increase seems inappropriate - affords no room for future increases, bore increase
    will increase deton. probs
    2. 20% displ. will fit the 2 liter class + seems like suitable amt.
    3. 2 7/8 bore (current 1350 size - ring etc) & 2.35" stroke (.050 more than M-1000) = 15.25 cu. in. 8cyl = 122 cu in
    6cyl = 91.5 cu in , 4cyl = 61 cu in , 2cyl = 30.5 cu in.
    4. Develop loop cyl. to avoid cross scavenged problems
    5. V configuration lends itself to loop cyl. spacing as does an O. P. --
    6. Capable of another 10% displ. incr. later - possibly bore only (3in. = 9%)
    7. Seek lightest weight & smallest package size

    That's it, exactly as given to me. So what was I to make of this? It's obvious that Bob is thinking - how can we get the greatest range of engines using the same piston, pin, rings, bearings, etc. Economy of scale, you know. But a 2 liter V8??? That didn't make sense to me. If we were doing this in part at least to be in a racing class (2liter), we certainly would want the highest horsepower we could get and that ment 2 banks of three cylinders with their inherent excellent power boost from exhaust pulse tuning. 4 cylinder banks don't give you this, at least not with any neat compact exhaust manifold. I'm not quite sure how I got Bob thinking my way. I believe I just kind of ignored the V8 thing and proceeded on with my analysis of the inline 6, the opposed 6, and the V 6, and Bob never said anything more about it. (more later)
    Last edited by rckid74; 06-29-2013 at 08:48 PM.

  16. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckid74 View Post
    I still have the hand written spec sheet (wish list) that Bob Johnson gave me back in Jan 1970. I tried to include a copy of it here but it ended up so small on the page you couldn't read it so I'll just copy it word for word
    Email it to me and I'll post it, and anything else you'd like to post.



  17. #28
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    Let me just add my thanks for this history lesson. VERY interesting.

  18. #29
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    OK transomstand, but I need your E-mail address!

  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckid74 View Post
    OK transomstand, but I need your E-mail address!
    Sent you a PM



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