Toyota vs Chevy!

[Powerplay25]

If you replace one US-assembled GM vehicle with one US-assembled Toyota vehicle, it is pretty much a zero sum game.

Wrong!

Although the Toyota may be assembled here, the monies are still going back to Japan.

[Pro300x24LD]

There are three reasons why people would not:
1. They cannot find any attractive vehicles in the GM, Ford or Chrysler line-ups, so they buy a different brand
2. They think a used car is better value for money than a new, so they buy a used car
3. They have already borrowed way too much, and don't want to extend themselves even more

What is driving the market now is 1 and 3: People are now in love with fuel efficient vehicles rather than trucks, and the big 3 is not (yet) the place to go for that. People also feel that they need to pay down their debt before buying new toys.

1. Thats all fine and dandy, but there are very few segments if any where the foreign automaker is ahead of the big 3 in my opinion. The one segment I will say even I like the foreign cars better is the small to midsized sporty sedans. However I'd settle on a Cadillac CTS because it has as good if not better styling IMO then the bmw, acura, audi, etc.

2. Buying used is fine, but again, buy domestic, chances are the person upgrading is brand loyal and will be getting another domestic. Buy foreign and the chances are the guy is going to get another foreign.

3. irrelevant, your just making point 2. again.

As for your mpg comment, are you drunk again? Whats the average Tundra owner getting for MPG? Not the 20-21 mpg I am getting from my chevy.

How about the 30 mpg malibu, where's the honda or toyota in that class coming in? Same mpg's....

Civic? Aveo? Cobalt (36mpg), Focus (30+), yeah the domestics don't have the 40+ mpg jetta tdi, I'll give you that....but seriously do you know the market?

I'd like you to SHOW me class by class how much better the foreign automakers mpg monsters are compared to the us automakers...their may be more choices, but really are there?

start here.

www.fueleconomy.gov Let me know what you find....

Toyota Corolla 4 cyl, 1.8 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
27
city 35
hwy $2053

Chevrolet Aveo 5 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
27
city 34
hwy $2053

Pontiac G3 Wave 5 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
27
city 34
hwy $2053

Chevrolet Aveo 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
27
city 34
hwy $2053

Pontiac G3 Wave 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
27
city 34
hwy $2053

Hyundai Accent 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.3 NA
27
city 33
hwy $2127

Nissan Versa 4 cyl, 1.8 L, Automatic (variable gear ratios), Regular
6.3 NA
27
city 33
hwy $2127

Toyota Corolla 4 cyl, 1.8 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
26
city 35
hwy $2053

Hyundai Accent 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.3 NA
26
city 35
hwy $2127

Nissan Versa 4 cyl, 1.8 L, Manual 6-spd, Regular
6.6 NA
26
city 31
hwy $2201

Chevrolet Cobalt XFE 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
25
city 37
hwy $2053

Pontiac G5 XFE 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
25
city 37
hwy $2053

Pontiac G5 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.3 NA
25
city 35
hwy $2127

Chevrolet Aveo 5 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.6 NA
25
city 34
hwy $2201

Pontiac G3 Wave 5 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.6 NA
25
city 34
hwy $2201

Chevrolet Aveo 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.6 NA
25
city 34
hwy $2201

Pontiac G3 Wave 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.6 NA
25
city 34
hwy $2201

MINI John Cooper Works 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 6-spd, Premium
6.6 NA
25
city 33
hwy $2324

MINI John Cooper Works Clubman 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 6-spd, Premium
6.6 NA
25
city 33
hwy $2324

Chevrolet Cobalt 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.8 NA
24
city 33
hwy $2281

Pontiac G5 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.8 NA
24
city 33
hwy $2281

Mazda 3 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.8 NA
24
city 32
hwy $2281

Nissan Versa 4 cyl, 1.8 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.8 NA
24
city 32
hwy $2281

Pontiac G5 GT 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.1 NA
23
city 32
hwy $2374

Pontiac G5 GT 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
7.1 NA
23
city 32
hwy $2374

Mitsubishi Lancer 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 5-spd, DOHC, Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 30
hwy $2466

Toyota Corolla 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 30
hwy $2466

Toyota Corolla 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic (S5), Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 30
hwy $2466

Chevrolet Cobalt 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 30
hwy $2466

Mazda 3 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S4), Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 30
hwy $2466

Volkswagen GTI 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S6), Premium
7.3 NA
22
city 29
hwy $2604

Volkswagen Jetta 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S6), Premium
7.3 NA
22
city 29
hwy $2604

Mazda 3 4 cyl, 2.3 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 29
hwy $2466

Mitsubishi Lancer 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (variable gear ratios), DOHC, Regular
7.7 NA
22
city 28
hwy $2571

Mazda 3 4 cyl, 2.3 L, Automatic (S5), Regular
7.7 NA
22
city 28
hwy $2571

Volkswagen GTI 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 6-spd, Premium
7.3 NA
21
city 31
hwy $2604

Volkswagen Jetta 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 6-spd, Premium
7.3 NA
21
city 31
hwy $2604

Scion tC 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2571

Volkswagen Jetta 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2571

Volkswagen Jetta 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Automatic (S6), Regular
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2571

Volkswagen Rabbit 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2571

Volkswagen Rabbit 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Automatic (S6), Regular
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2571

Mitsubishi Lancer 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 5-spd, DOHC, Regular
8.0 NA
21
city 28
hwy $2682

Mitsubishi Lancer 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic (variable gear ratios), DOHC, Regular
8.0 NA
21
city 27
hwy $2682

Volkswagen New Beetle 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Automatic (S6), Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 29
hwy $2682

Volkswagen New Beetle 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 28
hwy $2682

Volvo C30 FWD 5 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 28
hwy $2682

Volvo C30 FWD 5 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic (S5), Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 28
hwy $2682

Scion tC 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 27
hwy $2682

Volvo C30 FWD 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Manual 6-spd, Regular
8.0 NA
19
city 28
hwy $2682

Volvo C30 FWD 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Automatic (S5), Regular
8.0 NA
19
city 28
hwy $2682

Mazda Speed 3 4 cyl, 2.3 L, Manual 6-spd, Premium
9.2 NA
18
city 25
hwy $3255

Mitsubishi Lancer 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S6), DOHC TURBO, Premium
9.2 NA
17
city 25
hwy $3255


Would you look at that, General Motors cars right at the top of the list....damn, the domestics sure suck at fuel economy.

Hmmm lets move up to a slightly bigger car. "Family Sedans"

wow, amazing, the 2/3 on the top of the list, domestic......
Toyota Camry Hybrid 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic (variable gear ratios), HEV, Regular
5.4 NA
33
city 34
hwy $1813

Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.3 NA
26
city 34
hwy $2127

Saturn Aura Hybrid 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.3 NA


yup, again the us automaker sucks at fuel economy, you win again markus.

"Upscale Sedans"

Top of the list
Acura TSX 2.4liter 4 Cylinder 21/30 mpg
Linkoln MKZ 3.5l V6 18/28
Caddilac CTS 3.6 V6 18/26

Again the foreign car, is just killing the domestic, how dare the us automaker get about the same mileage out of a bigger more comfortable car with a bigger engine....they really suck at engineering.....
Sporty/sport cars

Audi TT Roadster Quattro 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S6), Premium
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2715

Audi TT Coupe Quattro 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S6), Premium
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2715

Mitsubishi Eclipse 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 5-spd, SOHC, Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 28
hwy $2682

Pontiac Solstice 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 5-spd, Premium
8.3 NA
19
city 28
hwy $2962

Saturn SKY 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 5-spd, Premium
8.3 NA
19
city 28
hwy $2962

Pontiac Solstice 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic 5-spd, Regular
8.7 NA
19
city 27
hwy $2935

Saturn SKY 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic 5-spd, Regular
8.7 NA
19
city 27


damn, that saturn and soltice really suck compared to the competition again...



Need I continue? Seriously, you dont understand economics, you obviously don't seem to understand fuel economy, and you have a picture of a guy with a bucket on his head.

[Markus]

No its not, because the money toyota makes goes back to japan and is injected into their country's economy, gnp, gdp, and livelyhood of their citizens.

Yeah, Toyota made an 8.64% operating margin and a 6.54% profit margin the most recent 4 quarters. What a drain on the US economy...

Add to that that Toyota has a global investor base and is not just owned by Japanese investors.

The money GM makes is injected into our local gnp, gdp,

GM is not making money. GM is losing money. GM has been destroying value for years. That is why the share price (up 10% this morning) is at its lowest for 50 years.

and then the same for the companies that their employees spend their money at...

US Toyota employees spend their income, too. There is no difference whatsoever.

like I said, you dont get it.

Don't be too sure about that.

[Kartracer]

US Toyota employees spend their income, too. There is no difference whatsoever.

Which are what, about 2% of the effected people as compared to the US automakers?

[Pro300x24LD]

US Toyota employees spend their income, too. There is no difference whatsoever.

GM out employs toyota 10-1 on us soil, (I made that figure up, but I invite you to look it up) so explain to me the difference that makes...yup your right, not much.....

What about some of those mpg figures markus.....don't avoid the discussion, you brought it up.

I am sure you don't get it.

[Markus]

I'd like you to SHOW me class by class how much better the foreign automakers mpg monsters are compared to the us automakers...their may be more choices, but really are there?

Sure, GM has some models, but what would that list have looked like if it had been only full-size trucks? It would have been totally dominated by the big 3. Now, GM is just one of many. Given the choices, it is no surprise that GM is losing market share.

Need I continue? Seriously, you dont understand economics, you obviously don't seem to understand fuel economy, and you have a picture of a guy with a bucket on his head.

[Markus]

GM out employs toyota 10-1 on us soil, (I made that figure up, but I invite you to look it up) so explain to me the difference that makes...yup your right, not much.....

If GM fires 1 person in Michigan and Toyota employs 1 in Texas, it is a zero sum game. That is what I am trying to say.

[Kartracer]

If GM fires 1 person in Michigan and Toyota employs 1 in Texas, it is a zero sum game. That is what I am trying to say.

No it is not.

[Pro300x24LD]

If GM fires 1 person in Michigan and Toyota employs 1 in Texas, it is a zero sum game. That is what I am trying to say.

No. It is not a Zero Sum game.

[Pro300x24LD]

Sure, GM has some models, but what would that list have looked like if it had been only full-size trucks? It would have been totally dominated by the big 3. Now, GM is just one of many. Given the choices, it is no surprise that GM is losing market share.

Glad you found humor in the bucket comment

If the list had only been fullsize trucks for what fuel economy? Look at it. The top truck is a fullsize GM product. The first foreign truck on the list is a mini toyota with a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder. The list is DOMINATED by GM products.

Like I said, My non hybrid fullsize crew cab pick up truck 4x4 gets up to 20-21 when driven like a sally and when driven normally I get 18 mpgs.

Thats pretty damn good IMO