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  1. #31
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    13 to 1 pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by pgf127rt
    I have a CVX20 like yours and it came with the Ford 460 in it, and an A impeller, when we got all of the work done on the hull and took it for test runs it would only turn 4800 rpm at about 52 mph. my friend, who owns a boat shop pulled the impeller and cut it to a B, rpm 5200 and 60 mph.
    Since then I have pt a 468 Chevy in it and being the performance of the engine is much better the boat now runs about 65 mph at 5400.
    Thanks for the information! I need all the help I can get. This is my first jet and my first V8 boat. What about fly cutting the pistons and running big chamber heads? Do you think that will get the compression down to where it needs to be for running pump gas? So if your you suggesting an B impeller for my boat I have 2 questions. Do you see any need to run a bronze or SS impeller and do you feel like 5400 a safe RPM for short runs at WOT on a well built 468? Thanks Fred!!
    86 Checkmate Enticer 6' jack plate hyd-steering 2.0 merc cowl vents low water scoops laser II floor stringers vinyl gauges and wiring all new (BOAT IS SOLD) 78 CVX20 Jet Project in the works BBC conversion. SML SUPERJETS

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 86ENTICER
    Thanks for the information! I need all the help I can get. This is my first jet and my first V8 boat. What about fly cutting the pistons and running big chamber heads? Do you think that will get the compression down to where it needs to be for running pump gas? So if your you suggesting an B impeller for my boat I have 2 questions. Do you see any need to run a bronze or SS impeller and do you feel like 5400 a safe RPM for short runs at WOT on a well built 468? Thanks Fred!!


    What you really need to do is sit down and make up a plan as to where you want to go with this project. You need to keep these questions in mind as you do.

    How much can you afford to put into the engine?

    How much can you afford to put into the pump?

    How fast do you want it to go?

    How fast is the hull design realistically good for? ... all your motor / pump mods should really hinge on this.

    How much noise can this thing make and not get you in trouble?

    What's really the most practicle outcome you can be shooting for?

    Everything inter-acts with everything else. If you build a really strong, high rpm motor, you need pump mods to use the HP.

    You can build a race gas, carburetted, BBC with enough HP to make 90 to 100mph in a typical jet hull, the Carlson isn't one of them, and it's design limit is a lot lower.

    There's a point at which more power just makes handling worse with little increase in speed.

    If you're restricted to a log type exhaust manifold, it's going to negate a lot of great mods you could otherwise do, and hence your ability to make HP. Unless you can run over thr transom headers, or the high dollar thru transom equivalent, a wise builder would plan a motor with peak hp around 5000 to 5200 rpm. I'd look at about 10:1 with a hydraulic roller cam set up with something like the Edelbrock aluminum heads.

    Keep in mind that HP is all about air flow thru the motor. If you bottle neck it coming out, (restrictive exhaust) .. It doesn't matter how great the intake side is. It all has to balance and work in concert.

    I would think that mid 60's would be a good target speed for that boat with the motor at 5200 to 5500 rpm tops.

    The pump guys can give better advice on impeller cuts, but an AB would likely work well. At that rpm, bronze is fine, if you want to save a few $$ over stainless.


    Resist the bigger is better / race motor visions,


    Darlene
    Last edited by Morgan's 6-C; 11-26-2006 at 07:49 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan's 6-C
    What you really need to do is sit down and make up a plan as to where you want to go with this project. You need to keep these questions in mind as you do.

    How much can you afford to put into the engine?

    How much can you afford to put into the pump?

    How fast do you want it to go?

    How fast is the hull design realistically good for? ... all your motor / pump mods should really hinge on this.

    How much noise can this thing make and not get you in trouble?

    What's really the most practicle outcome you can be shooting for?

    Everything inter-acts with everything else. If you build a really strong, high rpm motor, you need pump mods to use the HP.

    You can build a race gas, carburetted, BBC with enough HP to make 90 to 100mph in a typical jet hull, the Carlson isn't one of them, and it's design limit is a lot lower.

    There's a point at which more power just makes handling worse with little increase in speed.

    If you're restricted to a log type exhaust manifold, it's going to negate a lot of great mods you could otherwise do, and hence your ability to make HP. Unless you can run over thr transom headers, or the high dollar thru transom equivalent, a wise builder would plan a motor with peak hp around 5000 to 5200 rpm. I'd look at about 10:1 with a hydraulic roller cam set up with something like the Edelbrock aluminum heads.

    Keep in mind that HP is all about air flow thru the motor. If you bottle neck it coming out, (restrictive exhaust) .. It doesn't matter how great the intake side is. It all has to balance and work in concert.

    I would think that mid 60's would be a good target speed for that boat with the motor at 5200 to 5500 rpm tops.

    The pump guys can give better advice on impeller cuts, but an AB would likely work well. At that rpm, bronze is fine, if you want to save a few $$ over stainless.


    Resist the bigger is better / race motor visions,


    Darlene
    I agree completely. Also, unless your motor has been built with "marine" clearances, at WOT it's life will be brief.

    The design limits that determine the maximum "safe" speed for a boat hull are complex. Making a boat go very fast is not terribly complicated if spending money is not a problem. The problem comes when you are going very fast and decide to slow down. If you are unlucky, you will be thrown out of the boat when it does an instant 90° turn at 80 mph. A lot of things can happen to a boat that is over powered......most of them are very bad.

    I have a friend who has a boat that will go 120 mph with 6 adults in it. It has a 1500+ hp dual turbo motor. I have gone 110 mph in his boat. The boat is safe at that speed. I have gone 80 mph in a boat having the same bottom as your Carlson......I would not care to go faster with that hull design. It gets "squirrely" and unpredictable. You find yourself depending on luck....it's a sucker bet.

    I'm not trying to rain on your parade. If you spend some time reading on the various boat forums, you can learn enough to save yourself a lot of money and wasted effort.

    Good luck,

    old

  4. #34
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    On my Carlson, my engine is a nice hydrualic cam 10-1 motor with an 850 Holley on it, in no way am I implying that the CVX-20 is a high mph boat asit tends to get up on the ride plate and when it is up there anything can happen/
    As for noise it only has the guttural sound of a big block coming out of the rear of the boat, at speed you can hear the radio very well.
    A CVX is a good tough hull and if used properly can give many hours of pleasurable cruising in a comfortable enviroment, push it to the max and you can get thrown out or through the side of the boat, I know this from first hand experience.

  5. #35
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    Thanks morgan sleek and pgf

    Thank you for all the feed back. I'm sure it will be a big help steering me in the direction on this project.
    86 Checkmate Enticer 6' jack plate hyd-steering 2.0 merc cowl vents low water scoops laser II floor stringers vinyl gauges and wiring all new (BOAT IS SOLD) 78 CVX20 Jet Project in the works BBC conversion. SML SUPERJETS

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 86ENTICER
    Not had much time to work on the boat but I got some things done. I do have the pump totally pulled down. I looks like the shaft and housings can be saved but the rest is junk. Any suggestions on rebuilding the pump. Can I do this my self or do I need to send it off to an expert? Man that salt water was hard on the pump. I'm getting ready to order a rebuild kit from CP Performance. Not sure what impeller to go with I know it had a 9" A impeller but don't know for sure what cut it was. Don't know if it was an A, AA or whatever? This impeller thing is all new to me. I have the templates made for the transom wood and I cut and fitted the big 10 1/2" x 4" exaust tips. They look way cooler than the 1" factory flappers and I think they are going to sound really good. I do have some of the must find parts knocked out on my never ending list. I picked up a Holley 850 carb that is at a shop getting glass beaded an rebuilt, a Torker 2 intake, a pair of M/T valve covers, a complete electronic distributor, and a set of Glenwood water logs and risers. I am going with a 468 ci big block chevy that belongs to my boss, steel crank, steel rods with 13-1 forged pistons. He is selling me the motor less heads, intake, carb, ignition, cam and oil pan. I think this will make a super engine for the boat but it may be a little high on compression . My buddy runs 13-1 pistons in his big block jet boat on pump gas and it does fine. Well that's all for now on the project boat update. If any one has suggestions or advice to offer please have at it. I need all the info I can get on this first time jet boat rebuild. Thanks Fred!
    Is this Torquer II for an oval port head?
    All the T II's that I recall were for oval port heads, but they may be available for rectangular port.

    If it's an oval port manifold, you'll need to be looking for oval port heads. .... Look at aftermarket heads, not old GM castings.
    For your application, this is good.

    If this rectangular / oval port thing isn't making any sense, here's the short version:

    When GM made the big block, it was used in both high performance and truck applications.

    Obviously, a Hi Perf version needed to flow a lot of air for high rpm operation.... Sacrificing some power and torque in the lower rpm range is an acceptable trade off.

    A truck version would need to flow a lot less air, (as it would be a low rpm motor) .... but would need to maintain high air flow velocity at those lower rpm's to get efficient cylinder filling. Trucks are all about low end torque and power.

    To make the block work well in both applications, they made different sets of heads that were use specific.

    In general, all the Hi Perf motors (6000 or 6500 rpm redlines) used heads with a rectangular shaped intake port and runner. ...... The passenger and truck motors used heads (though not the exact same ones) with oval shaped intake ports and runners.

    The rectangular ports can flow more air at high rpm, but they significantly sacrifice flow at low and mid range to do it.

    The ovals have good low, and killer mid range, but peter out on the top.

    Current aftermarket oval port heads can make 500 hp in a 468 with ~10:1 compression, and most importantly, you get the strong mid range that pins you back in the seat and makes the boat feel fast and fun. The old GM cast iron oval heads were good to about 5500 rpm or so, the newer aftermarket ovals are good for another ~1000 rpm.


    Darlene
    Last edited by Morgan's 6-C; 11-27-2006 at 07:51 AM.

  7. #37
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    Great project you have going here. I was doing a search on the CVX boats and came across this thread.

    Try out Hot Boat's "jet tech" section or better yet the Banderlog forum at http://www.banderlog.com

    They are a great group of jet boaters that love to see projects like this one! They're VERY helpful with any technical pump stuff.

    I just thought I'd point you in the direction of some great technical JET BOAT specific help.

    When you need your cables drop me a line

  8. #38
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    Torquer intake

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan's 6-C
    Is this Torquer II for an oval port head?
    All the T II's that I recall were for oval port heads, but they may be available for rectangular port.

    If it's an oval port manifold, you'll need to be looking for oval port heads. .... Look at aftermarket heads, not old GM castings.
    For your application, this is good.

    If this rectangular / oval port thing isn't making any sense, here's the short version:

    When GM made the big block, it was used in both high performance and truck applications.

    Obviously, a Hi Perf version needed to flow a lot of air for high rpm operation.... Sacrificing some power and torque in the lower rpm range is an acceptable trade off.

    A truck version would need to flow a lot less air, (as it would be a low rpm motor) .... but would need to maintain high air flow velocity at those lower rpm's to get efficient cylinder filling. Trucks are all about low end torque and power.

    To make the block work well in both applications, they made different sets of heads that were use specific.

    In general, all the Hi Perf motors (6000 or 6500 rpm redlines) used heads with a rectangular shaped intake port and runner. ...... The passenger and truck motors used heads (though not the exact same ones) with oval shaped intake ports and runners.

    The rectangular ports can flow more air at high rpm, but they significantly sacrifice flow at low and mid range to do it.

    The ovals have good low, and killer mid range, but peter out on the top.

    Current aftermarket oval port heads can make 500 hp in a 468 with ~10:1 compression, and most importantly, you get the strong mid range that pins you back in the seat and makes the boat feel fast and fun. The old GM cast iron oval heads were good to about 5500 rpm or so, the newer aftermarket ovals are good for another ~1000 rpm.


    Darlene
    The intake was a rectangular port . I no longer have that one and I am shopping for an oval port intake to replace it. Thank you for all the time you have spent trying to get me pointed in the best direction. Fred
    86 Checkmate Enticer 6' jack plate hyd-steering 2.0 merc cowl vents low water scoops laser II floor stringers vinyl gauges and wiring all new (BOAT IS SOLD) 78 CVX20 Jet Project in the works BBC conversion. SML SUPERJETS

  9. #39
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    Cvx20

    Quote Originally Posted by wowchad
    Great project you have going here. I was doing a search on the CVX boats and came across this thread.

    Try out Hot Boat's "jet tech" section or better yet the Banderlog forum at http://www.banderlog.com

    They are a great group of jet boaters that love to see projects like this one! They're VERY helpful with any technical pump stuff.

    I just thought I'd point you in the direction of some great technical JET BOAT specific help.

    When you need your cables drop me a line
    Chad thanks for posting. I will slip over and have a look at what they have to say. The only way a do it your selfer like me will ever get things done is with the information and tips provided from other members like you and Morgan. Thanks for the heads up on the cables. All 3 will need to be replaced. Fred
    86 Checkmate Enticer 6' jack plate hyd-steering 2.0 merc cowl vents low water scoops laser II floor stringers vinyl gauges and wiring all new (BOAT IS SOLD) 78 CVX20 Jet Project in the works BBC conversion. SML SUPERJETS

  10. #40
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    Still working on the CVX20 project boat

    Last edited by WICKEDRISTER; 06-03-2007 at 04:52 PM.

    Southern Hotboater

  11. #41
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    Posting pics?

    Looks like the way you post pics has changed! What is the trick to ding it now days?
    Thanks Fred!

    Southern Hotboater

  12. #42
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    Thumbs up jet boats

    found a excellent site, just jet boats.com check it out. thanx triple j

  13. #43
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    Just Jet Boats

    I was at that site also, but all I saw was a bunch of internet bullies who would disagree with anything and everything. Seemed like a lot of whining,and not alot of tech, but hopefully that changed. I'm right there with you on the restoration, although mine already has BBC and jacuzzi pump, other than that same spot totally. Being an outboard guy myself, I suggested the same thing Alaska dude said (sorry I forgot correct handle for him), and my wife said exactly the same thing!! LOL Keep up the good work, an excellent book is Runabout Renovation by Jim Anderson. Later, Chris.

  14. #44
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    TJ and Restream

    Thanks for the info and thanks for the kind words. There is a bunch of good guys over on Justjets. I got a bowl from Tahiti Cowboy in MI, a shaft from Heatseeker in CAL. and my motor mounts from Gasguzzler in NC. There are a few pro boat builders and pro bump builders that chat with the gang on that site all the time. I think it may get a lil old for them when a New-B like me keeps asking 10.000 questions but for the most part everyone is really nice and totally willing to give you advice. So Ted, Duane, FU, Ducky and the rest of yall I want to say Thank You!
    Fred a New-B in VA

    Southern Hotboater

  15. #45
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    Lake Anna the Beast of the East

    We went to the Beast of the East at Lake Anna in Northern VA. This was our first time and we had a blast. Man what a nice bunch of boats we got to see. Everyone was really nice and we plan on going back with our ride next year. Hell it even got the wife all pumped up. Now she is starting to push me to get our stuff done. Check out some Lake Anna pics if you like. It was really a good time, everyone had fun.
    Thanks Jack, We never met but I was talking to Henry in your driveway while you were running all around looking for jumper cables and a pair needle nose LOL LOL what a host! Hell of a job , it was a bunch of fun
    Thanks!!
    Fred and Melissa
    Roanoke VA

    Southern Hotboater

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