New low cost ECU alternative!

[nitro_rat]

[Soporific]

Looks good, how do I get any details on what these units will do and how user friendly they are?

[nitro_rat]

I would guess either by contacting Power Performance Engineering and asking or just waiting for the R&D phase to end when the official announcement comes out. You could also follow their facebook page for updates.

[HStream1]

They are forsale just not Published. Youll have to call Brendan and order one. Hell test it with your tune and Ship. I was included in the first 20 but I let one of my friends take mine as he needed a ECU worse than me as i have a few. Ill get mine Its a No Brainer.

[Soporific]

Thanks for the info., Bud. I was looking into Mega Squirt EFI/Spark ECU and a coil on plug ignition system. It is possible to do a fully sequential injector and spark set up for a v6 2 stroke on that system for about a grand? The learning curve is a little steep and the tunes are not readily available for all the standard mercury engines which makes it much more time consuming. If someone knows where the stock tune files are available, that might make that option a lot more appealing.

Plus, full control over the engine in any mod set up in the future.

[LakeFever]

You could do mega squirt for a lot less than a grand if you know what you are doing. What you need are base VE maps or you could add a MAF and scale the injectors to that. I’m not the most knowledgeable just been around enough efi tuning for the race car stuff to understand what’s what. If you want to set up a mega squirt controller It would change the game for us here

[Soporific]

I am still researching this system, but it looks really appealing to someone like me. It can run without the TPS and just the MAP sensor on the MEGA ECU. It can sequentially fire all the low impedance peak and hold pink tip injectors directly from the board and also directly fire the coil on plugs as well. Ford COP sets are cheap and operate on 12 volts. I bought a six set for $30 for an F150. The 16x16 VE maps are the time consuming issue. Once somebody shares those files, I agree, it would be a game changer. And I think that it is time for that.

It would mean bye bye to the switch boxes, spark plug wires, merc coils, the merc ecu, and yield fully custom control over the motor. I want to run individual injector wires through the intake manifold to have sequential firing of the injectors, not in pairs. Could also add a wide band Bosch O2 sensor into the exhaust stream.

I think to pioneer a set up like this, I would have to be really committed......or need to be committed, hahahaha.

[nitro_rat]

No reason to sequentially fire injectors in a 2 stroke unless you're direct injecting. You just need fuel in the crankcase. You could probably randomly fire the injectors at whatever pulse width maintained the desired a/f ratio. I don't know how Merc/Brucato/Powers does it and I don't really care. Bottom line is I don't think it matters that the injection pulses are timed to the combustion cycle at all as long as the a/f ratio in the case is appropriate.

Doubt that the lambada in the exhaust stream would be useful. The position would need to be 24" from the bottom of the chest and at least 12-18" from the end of the pipe. There's just nowhere for it to work in a real world setting.

Wishful thinking but overcomplicating something that doesn't have to be difficult...

[HStream1]

If you got deep pockets look at the Motec system.

[Soporific]

No reason to sequentially fire injectors in a 2 stroke unless you're direct injecting. You just need fuel in the crankcase. You could probably randomly fire the injectors at whatever pulse width maintained the desired a/f ratio. I don't know how Merc/Brucato/Powers does it and I don't really care. Bottom line is I don't think it matters that the injection pulses are timed to the combustion cycle at all as long as the a/f ratio in the case is appropriate.

Doubt that the lambada in the exhaust stream would be useful. The position would need to be 24" from the bottom of the chest and at least 12-18" from the end of the pipe. There's just nowhere for it to work in a real world setting.

Wishful thinking but overcomplicating something that doesn't have to be difficult...

Well, I don't think that randomly firing the injectors is best. I think that even balancing the mixture in each crank chamber is why merc has one injector directly shooting into each reed valve for each cylinder, not some throttle body batch firing randomly. On my motor, spark number 1 fires injectors 3,4 which are 120 and 180 degrees behind in the rotation of the crank. So by the time the injector coil opens the number 4 piston is just starting its upward motion and sucks in the air/fuel pulse given the timing etc.

I really don't know why you think that the O2 sensor would have to be 24 inches plus away. Why can't they can function much closer to the exhaust ports than that and provide useful data?

Have you set up an ECU and tuned one of these motors before without the aid of an O2 sensor?

I don't understand what is over complicated about using an O2 sensor to tune more efficiently.

Are you familiar with tuning motors with a Mega Squirt or similar system, Josh? Any tips would be appreciated.

[LakeFever]

You need egt on a two smoker. O2’s foul real fast and don’t survive rich environments for long. Two things two strokes do

o2’s only job is to trim fuel. I don’t think that a good plan at all in a two stroke. You can use the tps and with a good ve table scale the fuel inj pulse accordingly and batch fire would be fine imo

[nitro_rat]

I really don't know why you think that the O2 sensor would have to be 24 inches plus away. Why can't they can function much closer to the exhaust ports than that and provide useful data?

Alright, here we go..

It's not about what I "think." An O2 sensor is a sensitive device which is capable of giving an accurate reading under specific conditions. The temperature of the sensor needs to be within a certain range. This is why newer sensors are 3 wire or 4 wire compared to the original 1 wire units. The 1 wire unit grounds through the mount and signal is the wire. The Three wire unit incorporates a heater to bring the sensor online faster for emissions purposes. Makes the open loop warm up period shorter. One signal wire, one heater +, one heater ground. The 4 wire sensor adds an additional ground for the signal circuit for a better signal.

Now if you jam the head of this sensor up in the exhaust port, the heat will burn it up, even burn the tip of the sensor off. Mount it too close to the end of the pipe and the reversion pulses draw in fresh air and this presents two problems. One, the fresh air gives a false lean reading. Two, the fresh air cools the sensor and limits its ability to function.

Then there's the issue of contamination. Atmospheric air and burned unleaded fuel is the only stuff that won't foul out a sensor. Lead, oil, off gases from the curing of most types of RTV, and pretty much anything else can and will foul the sensor. Additionally, the air fuel ratios that the sensor is capable of monitoring is limited, a wide band sensor is much more expensive and has a slightly wider range.

There is no O2 sensor that will survive in a 2 stroke exhaust stream even if you could provide a suitable place to mount it (hint:and you can't find a suitable place to mount it in an outboard)!!!

[Soporific]

Thanks for the replies. Ok, so my plan was to use a wide band O2 sensor with an offset fitting as they are readily available and I already have the wide band sensor. The offset sensor location might allow the sensor to survive for the tuning and I was not planning to use it long term. My understanding is that when you boil it all down an O2 sensor is really just measuring temperature anyway, it is not really measuring O2 directly, but I was aware that they could foul up more readily on a 2 stroke, and I have not tried it yet. If it is that bad of an idea on a 2 stroke, then maybe I should not attempt it at all. I have mounted and seen O2 sensors in exhaust manifolds very close to the exhaust ports on 4 strokes, so I know they can work there.

I am not sure of an EGT setup that would be appropriate for a 2 stroke, so any suggestions would be appreciated. I have a second 4 stroke motor that I will be putting on a custom EFI system with spark control, probably Mega Squirt, so most of the tuning knowledge will cross over.

[LakeFever]

Indeed factory 02’s are often mounted directly in the manifold. They have to go in before the cats to do their job properly but they do die fast in rich environments. I don’t have a lot more to offer but what’s the worst that could happen using your wideband to log air/fuel? You burn up a sensor or hurt your motor trying to tune it which happens to all of us who nod two strokes now and then. Egt’s are reasonably priced now and will certainly do the job you just have to translate the data to your fuel scaling.

id be trying to keep things as simple as possible. Tps sensor, rpm, spark curve, fuel scaling. That should be enough to do it. I know you can batch fire with mega squirt so that solves the sequential concerns. Start rich and slowly lean it out. Keep a bunch of spark plugs handy and pre mix fuel. I’d like to give this a try and some point as well, keep posting what you discover as you go

[nitro_rat]

Exhaust pyrometers are commonly used in outboards, Power Performance and others can set you up with what you need. 2 strokes are kinda funny, too rich and too lean both give high EGT's. Lotsa guys have burned down powerheads learning to tune with EGT's. It's a tool to use to fine tune mixture once you're really close. Necessary to be competitive in 800 ft drags. Totally useless for a lake cruiser. Search for Jay Smit's advice on reading piston tops. Learn to tune first before you start trying to out trick yourself. It's much cheaper that way...