What about Iran???

[Fish]

today, yesterday... there really is not a big difference. Religion is often the stated cause, but rulers ambition is often the underlying reason.

The crusades were in the name of spreading Christianity, and in the process the roman catholic church became the largest private land owners in the world.

Iraqi's were killing each other before we became the new infidels (around 1918). Shiites, Sunnies, you name the sect, and their cleric does not like the other ones... especially if it threatens their own consolidation of power.

Most Muslims do not believe in the violence that currently goes on. You are right, they are doing nothing about it, but that is not what most believe the Koran says. Just like in Christianity, those with weak minds can be manipulated by those with an agenda by claiming it is the will of god. A promise of pleasing Allah and huge reward in the next life sure beats a pat on the back when sending out some kid with nothing to lose to do their dirty work. BTW, ever notice the big religious leaders don't blow themselves up, instead they get kids to do it? if it is so pleasing to Allah and you get the chicks in the next life, you would think bin ladin would be tired of living in a cave and blow himself up. No such luck.

[jmg944t]

My problem with this is that the United States is SUPPOSED to be religously neutral. That isn't exactly the stance of our current administration is it? There are plenty of countries around the world who are more christian than the US but you don't hear Osama complaining about them. It is supposed to be separation of church and state to protect the state not the church.

[CDave]

The chit is getting serious folks. With stuff like this going on people actually want to let 11 million illegal aliens become legal for no other reason than they are here already.
Time to wake up people!!!

there is growing concern that his government may have moved beyond mere rhetorical support with a deal that could allow Iran access to known uranium deposits in Venezuela. Allying himself with countries that share his dislike of the United States is nothing new for the oil-rich Mr. Chavez and his brand of authoritarianism, but any movement toward a joint nuclear effort with Iran is alarming.

[beer30]

My problem with this is that the United States is SUPPOSED to be religously neutral. That isn't exactly the stance of our current administration is it? There are plenty of countries around the world who are more christian than the US but you don't hear Osama complaining about them. It is supposed to be separation of church and state to protect the state not the church.

How can we be religiously neutral? We have " In God We Trust " on our money, we pledge to our flag " One Nation Under God "!!! We sing a song that says " God Bless America ". Name a country on God's green earth that is more christain then the U.S.A.? Also Bin-Laden hates us because we are free and we are able as a people to make our own decisions. If these so-called more christain countries exsisted and had our freedom, he would hate them also. We are the world's policemen, another reason Bin-Laden hates us. Also the strenght of our economy, that is the reason the World Trade Center was his target on 9/11. Chuck.


This flag flys at our house everyday.

[jmg944t]

How can we be religiously neutral? We have " In God We Trust " on our money, we pledge to our flag " One Nation Under God "!!! We sing a song that says " God Bless America ". Name a country on God's green earth that is more christain then the U.S.A.? Also Bin-Laden hates us because we are free and we are able as a people to make our own decisions. If these so-called more christain countries exsisted and had our freedom, he would hate them also. We are the world's policemen, another reason Bin-Laden hates us. Also the strenght of our economy, that is the reason the World Trade Center was his target on 9/11. Chuck.


This flag flys at our house everyday.

What is our national official religion? Oh.... we don't have one. Our gov't is founded on the belief that all religions are equal to one another. "god" is a genric name in this case not nessecerily meaning YOUR god. It is a recognition that the US is generally monotheistic. As far as "under god" in our pledge of allegiance that was added under the Eisenhower administration I believe. When I say "christian" I use the definition of christian. You will find a higher percentage of "christians" in Italy with 97% than here with only 79%. AND THEY HAVE THE POPE! They also recognize all religions as equal.

In "god we trust" was added to coins in 1864 and paper currency in 1957.

Presidents swearing in "under god" with a hand on the bible is a tradition that not all presidents have done.

Chuck, you are not religiously neutral, which is fine. This country governmental representation is supposed to be.

[beer30]

I don't think of myself as religiously neutral. Actually I never really thought about it. The truth of the matter is I am against the Muslim religion hands down. Their philosophy totally blow me away. Teaching to hate and kill is unbelieveable in today's world. It's really hard to sit here and just think that it's O.K. to have freedom of religion, when their mind-set is what is.Chuck.

[Wile E. Coyote]

some interesting things to ponder,

1. this country is not religiously neutral, it was founded on freedom of religion and religious principals, our muslim friends tolerate NO other religions....
2. thanks to teddy, gore, clinton, kerry, shcumer and the rest of the wonderful politicians who have seeked to undermine this president and the war effort at every turn, which country is going to belive our "intellegence reports" or our motive, no matter how just, for any action we do or do not take with iran....congratulations, in order to achieve your political gain you have sold this country down the river and have succeded in making us just as powerful as the UN......putting our country at a far greater risk than any terrorist ever could...
3. it is not just iran getting the bomb....it is the uranium enrichment, a dirty bomb can be made from material much less potent than that needed for a bomb....so....continuing to beat the dead horse...while our politicians debate the legalization of millions of illegals....they continue to miss the big picture of SECURING OUR BORDERS
4. you will not solve thousands of years of religious conflict (the entire middle east) by political means...

[paulfox74]

Not only do you guys know boats ,you have a good grasp on life. I cound't agree more. I think it's going to be like two ant mounds to close to each other, One must be destroded to have peace till the next one comes along.Unfortunatly with the weppons we have now if we use them we can't go boating till the fall-out has gone

[Fish]

Actually, I believe our forefathers were not atheists or against religion, they framed our constitution so that there was a separation of church and state to check the power that the roman catholic and Anglican churches (among others) developed in Europe. They were God fearing men who were wise enough to try to keep any one power (president/ruler, congress, court, church) all in check against each other for the good of the people and the country. IMHO, preventing the words "one nation under god" in a pledge to our country would make them roll over in their grave, but things evolve and that is the state of affairs our country is in right now good or bad.

[jmg944t]

Beer- I would agree with you we should not have freedom of religion. where we disagree is that I believe we should have no reference to any religion anywhere in any government subject matter. As there are over 300 recongized religions in this country and you can't all be right we should just agree that this isn't a place for any gov't involvment even in principle.

Wile- 2323 people are dead and what 100 billion? has been spent based on false intelligence. Bush's "war effort" is a joke. We are there why? Logic says cheap oil, reality says Bush's religious motivated agenda. If you still think we belong there you are among a shrinking group. I'm not anti war, just anti THIS war. Good point about the dirty bomb, and securing our borders should have happened 9/12. You say we can't solve 1000's of years of religious conflict politically. Do you think WE can stop it at all? It doesn't seem to me like it is "solvable", nor is it really our concern. I worry more about the 30% of children not finishing highschool than who believes in which invisible man in the sky.

It looks as though Hugo Chavez from Venezuela is aligning himself with Iran in an effort to gain access to uranium deposits in venezuela. This is going to get interesting pretty quick. I am hopeful that when it is all said and done our nuke arsenal is enough of a deterent to keep anyone from doing anything stupid.

[Trikki1010]

Jodie, GOOD post, like thinking out loud....

I'm with you most of the way. I believe our forefathers to be christians and wanting to prevent unbalanced power, Church v. State. I don't believe they ever comprehended the idea of the masses and the integration of society as a whole....

Can't play the church card because of the wide variety, it's impossible to make everyone happy. Now if we sealed the borders and kept to the original plan, our way or the highway, we wouldn't be in this pickle right now, but we can thank the liberals, and their attorneys, for redefining "Freedom" while the politicians and courts allowed all this to pass by.....Even as far as Lincoln, the great emmancipator, wanted to ship all the slaves back, but Boothe killed that one before it happened

We allowed this animal to get this way, it isn't going to be pretty straghtening it out as we have become fat and selfish. In 40 years we've gone from "supporting the cause" to "bending it to fit our needs". I know my uncles who fought and died in WWI, II & Nam, would roll over in their graves, as would the women who worked in factories to keep this power rolling...

NOW, back to the thread,

If someone eliminated Israel, 1/2 our problems would GO AWAY

[jphii]

The Muslim Religion is all about killing the non-believers(THE INFIDELS). Their Koran says that at least 50 times. We are the Infidels in their eyes, we need to be eliminated, if they are true Muslims.

There is a big different between Christains and Muslims. God will tell you, if you run into a non-believers love them. Allah will tell you to kill them.


Also a extreme Christain will sell all his belongings, take his family move to a
3rd world nation, help them to plant corps and worship Christ our Lord.
A extreme Muslim will move to a different country, learn to fly Jet airplanes, then fly them into building to kill as many people as they can!!!!!

THERE IS BIG DIFFERENT BETWEEN THE MUSLIM RELIGION AND CHRISTAINITY.

Muslim will always feel this way, their Koran demands it. And we as a nation of God must realizes this. There is NO talking to these people!!!! Chuck.

You are sorely mistaken, and must have never read the Koran. That is a radical interpritation, and only the radicals believe that. While I wouldn't mind sending all of these chit eating ragheads to paradise statements like that just make the situation worse. There are over 2 BILLION Muslims on this planet, and if they all felt that way we'd be in some deep chit.

Just like during the Crusades, it has been shown thoughout history that many grievous wrongs can be done to people in the name of religion. Just like during the Crusades you cannot condem a religion because of the beliefs of radical elements within that religion. All religions have that element, and those extremes are usually the only elements of said religion that most people hear about. Allah tells them to kill, true Muslims, get serious.

[Liqui-Fly]

When the 20 million illegals(Gov. says 11 million yeah right) get amnesty and bring in 4 of their relatives we'll be living in Mexico without a shot being fired. Until we get a handle on what is sedition and treason are, we are F'ed. Buy guns and ammo, your vote won't matter anymore.

[CDave]

On the Freedom of Religion.

It's Freedom from a STATE SPONSORED RELIGION, NOT Freedom from religion!

"One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:382

[Trikki1010]

When the 20 million illegals(Gov. says 11 million yeah right) get amnesty and bring in 4 of their relatives we'll be living in Mexico without a shot being fired. Until we get a handle on what is sedition and treason are, we are F'ed. Buy guns and ammo, your vote won't matter anymore.

Who's gonna work at McD's, Burger King or the Dot-Marts

No Happy Meals for Davey boy