Un-restricted Talladega race in NASCAR???

[RedAllison]

I think part of my boredom with NASCAR is that while they have greatly improved the safety of the cars, spectators and sport itself. Nascar has done NOTHING to evolve the sport in a speed sense. The fastest (straight out speeds) records still stand from the 70s (the winged super cars from Dodge and Plymouth) and Bill Elliotts T-bird runnin in the 2teens at Talladega in the late 80s (pre restrictor plate days). I understand why they did it, because of a couple of wrecks were the cars got up into the fences and debris entered the grandstands and some people were injured and I believe even some deaths occured. At that point the liability underwriters in the industry (ESPECIALLY those insuring NASCAR) got involved and basically said, "Ok you guys better slow it down, break 200 and we will NOT cover your butts!" Thus the restrictor plate use on Talladega and Daytona speedways. But then in the early 90s the "roof flaps" and some other tweaks and tools basically made "flying cars" a thing of the past. Now about the only way to get a car off the ground is while sliding through the infield grass, out of harms way (unless you are in that car!)

My question is: Would there be a large audience of support for one race a year, held at Talladega where the rules are "make em as fast as possible boys". Obviously technology has given us the ability to travel much safer with actually less risk than before. I dare say less risk than restrictor plate racing of today as it would end the 42 car "trains" that race for 500 miles. How fast can a Nextel Cup car go?

I don't think any modern day tests have been tried but I remember a test done by Road & Track magazine back in the early/mid 80s. They threw the gaunlet down too two teams. One (whose name escapes me now) invite was given too a hotshot GP team with a Porsche. Not a street variety now, I mean the full on GP style 12cylinder race cars that look similar too a McLaren F1. For all intents and purposes they are Formula 1 cars with fiberglass/carbon fiber bodies atop them. They regularly hit speeds (even then) over 200mph but no body knew just how fast they would go. The other invite was given too the Folgers team driven by Tim Richmond (who died a couple years later of AIDS from all the partying with the babes). This was in a Winston Cup car that was a mid 80s Chevy Monte Carlo fastback. Remember the old square bodied Monte Carlos like the SSs of the mid 80s? About as aerodynamic as a barn door. The track was the 7.5 mile (yes 7.5!) test oval in Sedona, AZ that I can't remember who owned it back then. Ford and Nissan both have owned it at one point. Imagine 3 Talladegas hooped together and you get the picture!

Anyway the teams were given a morning of testing and allowed to do ANYTHING they wanted with regards too aerodynamics, taping off grills/intakes/vents, engine work (they still had to have legally "sized" normally aspirated motors but anything else went). The results absolutely STUNNED everyone, especially those in Road & Track. Bets made before the event had the GP car doing nearly 275 and the Monte Carlo wasn't believed to make it out over 210 (remember this was before Bill Elliott drove the T-bird into the 2teens).

The GP Prosche laid down a best if I remember correctly somewhere in the 220s and it was agreed that was ALL that car was going to do with that kind of engine. When Tim Richmond fired up the Monte Carlo the GPers and R&T guys were snickerin at "these hill billy racers" in their low tech "stock car". Remember, NASCAR didn't have the prominence back then it does now. In the early/mid 80s it was still strictly a southern, redneck sport by most other racers thoughts. I remember distinctly about Tim Richmond saying he had NO idea how fast he was going but he knew he was flying in "uncharted waters" when he went by the timers, R&T and crew members standing about mid way down the front stretch after he had picked up speed (doesn't take squat to pick up speed with an un-restricted motor on a 7.5 mile oval). He told them over the radio, "Damn boys I don't know how fast I am goin but I know I am MOVING" as he flew by them. They didn't even tell him the speeds until he came back around and saw the guns for himself.

There was a stunned silence in the desert when Tim shut the engine off. I can't remember the exact speed but I know it was over 240mph and but under 250. I want to say something around 243-244?

Nearly 250MPH in car that is LIGHTYEARS behind the modern marvels of today. Could the cars of today run into the 260s, possibly even 275mph under the same conditions given Richmond 20 years ago? I giggle just thinking about the possibilities.

Obviously they couldn't run that fast on Talladega but certainly in the 220s would be a cakewalk? So you worry about the folks in the first 50 rows in the grandstands. I say CLOSE those seats and make them off limits! Raise the ticket prices too several hundred dollars a seat to make up for the loss of seats. Back the folks in the infield up an extra 1/8 mile and charge them hundreds more to get in. DON'T make it a points race, just court Corporate America and I am sure getting a multi-million dollar "winner take all" pot would be easy. This thing would have so many eyes on it I can't imagine it being hard to raise 2-5million for a single winner pot. That way it would be worth it too the Nextel boys to pack up on a non Nextel weekend and go down there and race for the chance at such a large pot.

Just thinkin out loud but I know I would BE THERE on the 51st row even if I had to pay $1000 for that seat. I would just love to see "old school" super speedway racing done with modern technology. THEN we would truly see who had the balls and who was really a pansiearse who is afraid to...

STAND ON IT SON!!!
RA

[jphii]

I remeber that issue well, and your numbers sound right to me. I'd pay to see it now too. The Monte had hubcaps and a couple of other things done to minimize drag. But it still spanked that GP car like a red-headed stepchild. I'm gonna have to see if I can find that issue so I can scan it and post it.

[1BadAction]

it'll never happen... Real nascar died at the 2001 daytona 500.

although if it did happen, (considering a 26" diameter tire) with a 3.00:1 rear and a normal 1:1 4th gear, 9500rpm would be good for 245mph. knock that rear gear to 2.43 (if they could turn that) and your talking 260mph at 8200rpm

are the current hard compound tires even good for that kind of speed?

[RedAllison]

jp I aint sure but I want to say it was in a 1983 issue, but wouldn't swear on it.

Let me know if you find it, I to would be interested in seeing it again as well.
RA

ps
1bad, surely if those tires withstood 240+ 20 years ago we could build tires today to withstand 260+?

[beer30]

245mph, 260mph!!!!! Which one of you guys fell and bumped your head????? Never would happen, wouldn't even come up in a Nascar round table. I say on those tracks( Daytona, Talladaga) run smaller engines(275ci max.). Then let them have at it. Keep the CFM's down to 600 also. Won't need restrictor plates. You will have a good clean race, peoplewill be able to pull away and pass at will.Chuck

[transomstand]

They did it last year as a test. Rusty Wallace drove an unrestricted car at Daytona I think. Lap speeds about 225 with straightaway speeds about 235.
It was part of the testing for the COT.

[chynewalkr]

Nascar should make the teams race production stock bodies with minor tweeks. If you dont have a 2 door car to bad, your racing 4 doors or nothin! I hate what it has become

[The Big Al]

NASCAR reminds me of the Space program of the 50's.

Remember the sound barrier?

All the rummers about blowing your ears, poping your eyeballs out.
Man cannot take the stress!

And they act like the 200mph is some kind of Barrier!

WHOOOOOO, don't cross the 200mph mark!!!! WHOOOOOOOOO

It's BS, they don't want to cross into no mans land!!!!

[Rusrog]

They did it last year as a test. Rusty Wallace drove an unrestricted car at Daytona I think. Lap speeds about 225 with straightaway speeds about 235.
It was part of the testing for the COT.

Yep.... I remember when Rusty ran it. He saiid the car drove fairly well but that he certainly didn't any traffic out there at that speed. I don't blame him either... Just imagine if he had a drafting partner!
While I do think that racing at Talladega is a little bit slow... it would be hard to increase the speeds by only a fwe MPH and it would not make the racing much better. I doubt that anyone would notice any difference from 185-205. The lead draft would go from 43 cars to 33 probably... There are a lot of good teams and Talladega isn't a handling track. You might thin them out a little bit but not much I bet. And the slight amount of thinning through the field would not be worth it if someone did get sideways...
It would be different at Daytona because your car has to actually drive decent there.

Just my thoughts..

[ssent]

I remember those days, 219mph lap average, 221 on straight away. Racing then was exciting. It wasn't all bunched up racing. No bump drafting then, just regular drafting. Lots of drag races to the finish line. Back then Dal sr. wasn't well liked. He purposely would spin people out to win races. He drove the wrangler car, yellow and blue. Yeah, I long for those days again. That was racing!

With all the improvements to keep the cars down on the track (roof flaps & rails) I would think restictor plates could be eliminated. Shortening the rear spoiler for less down force would slow down speeds in corners and make the race more of a drivers race, not just lets see how fast the car can go. I like hearing some of the older fans from late 70's early 80's. Alot of the fans today DON'T HAVE A CLUE what nascar was about then. No millionaires back then. Million Dollar Bill didn't happen till the 80's.