New Mercury Racing 450R Delivers Unrelenting Outboard Performance

[Hayabusajm]

It will be a WOW product when you get done running it hard in offshore conditions and back on the trailer "Wow look at all of this stuff that broke". I do agree that the brp 2 strokes make great power "E-tecs, sea-doo, motors, the 850 twin snowmobile motor, but the new 4 stroke stuff still has them covered in every category besides weight IMO".

BRP has to be thinking of countering with something for if not the 450 maybe the 400, maybe the Miami 2020 Show will show something.

[engineermike]

Except the pressure wave released as the ex port opens is not waisted as you think, it's used in proper timing to pressurize the next closing ex port's cylinder on the compression stroke. It's highly significant and raises cylinder pressure. Supercharging is how it has been described by OMC and Merc in technical papers of design.

If you care to watch the degree counter you will notice the exiting blowdown pulse and the leading cylinders blowdown pulses arriving to pressurize the ex port and cylinder prior to the port closing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_con...&v=fSko92cWLcE

Too bad you need a half dozen expansion chambers to make this really work right...

[powerabout]

At least the economy is still buying boats and merc and brp are engineering new products.
Between them they own what percentage of the market you would think they own it with the who ha on product release.
Has yam or suzuki ever had a launch party?

[FMP]

Actually no, the short ex port to ex port distances of travel are more efficient than the long distance run to the end of a can and return to the originating ex port. What's important is the optimal range of arrival in degrees prior to port closing. At slow speeds the arrival is considerably early. As crank rotation speed increases that arrival becomes " later" in respect to port closing. At top rpm it's the optimum range.
The rave permits that arrival to be delayed at low rpm to be near or at optimum range.

That video is without anything except the ex chest and passage from port to port of the original Etec.

[CUDA]

For $64,000 that wonderful new motor should be carbon fiber...

So how much does a 450HP inboard cost?

[mjw930]

For $64,000 that wonderful new motor should be carbon fiber...

So how much does a 450HP inboard cost?

A 496 HO Bravo 1 package is about $35k but bump it up to a Mercury Racing 520 or 540 with an XR drive and you are probably pushing $60k. There’s nothing in between the 425 and the 520.

[FMP]

Call me crazy but I'd go 540 XR , twins definitely.

[mjw930]

Call me crazy but I'd go 540 XR , twins definitely.

While I agree you’re also pushing 1200 lbs for that package if I’m not mistaken. 2400 for the twins.

OTOH, find a nice 41 Velocity hull, restore it and drop in a pair of 540 XRs and you would have a nice 90 mph offshore battle wagon on the cheap, relatively speaking.

[FMP]

People will debate the useful interior space with the ob vs io but it's also a matter of clean lines of the hull being disturbed by two or more fatsos hanging off the swim platform. Truthfully wether it goes10+ mph faster with ob I wouldn't care. In that class of boat I still feel big io looks best.

[HydroSkreamin]

The point I keep getting at is if the same amount of effort had been thrown at 2 stroke tech this whole time, instead of trying to make 4 joke work where it don't belong. We would have seen these power levels from the entire marine industry years ago.

I’ll agree with you that today’s engines are more complicated than those of yesteryear,but what powertrain isn’t? Even lawn mowers and weed eaters aren’t exempt.

It’s painfully obvious that all manufacturers except BRP chose to go to 4-stroke when the EPA Phase2 regs came around. I applaud the fact that BRP is sticking to their credo of “emissions can be met with a 2-stroke”, and even went so far as to make 4-stroke owners look stupid by making a 30-second commercial where the 4-stroke owner would get kicked or punched in the nuts every step of the way.

https://youtu.be/nWaqOnXlUhI

Ironically, I’m pretty sure that’s how the guys that bought Fichts felt when OMC closed their doors, but I digress.

If it was so easy to build an emissions compliant 2-stroke above 300 HP, wouldn’t BRP have done it by now? I’ve no skin in the game, only what I read here, but the 300 ETEC and 250 HO ETEC seem to perform basically the same, and neither could keep up with a 300 XS, so it stands to reason they won’t hold a candle to the 300R “car motor” as you refer to it. And they nor Caldwell has shown up with anything with the power, price or warranty. It’s all talk or speculation. Like them or not, at least 400R’s and now 450R’s are real things, not just hype. They’re actually running on boats for the public to view and experience.

If you’ve got a better mousetrap, I suggest you build it so that path gets beaten to your door, and I wish anyone that tries it success. If it is easy, everyone would be doing it. I’m pretty sure it’s not an “all ya gotta do is” situation, or it’d already be done.

I cut my teeth on 2-strokes to start my hi-performance engine career, and enjoyed every bit of it, including building competitive engines for IOGP F1, as well as championship winning snowmobile oval, drag race, speed run and hill climb and water-cross engines, so I have a bit of a leg to stand on. If there’s one thing I can swear by, is that there’s two types of 2-strokes: those that have seized, and those that are going to. It’s really hard to keep something that’s full of holes and huge temperature gradients throughout to keep a round bore, and with that, heat rejection, support and lubrication of the piston. It gets worse with higher specific output. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it’s going to take a lot of development and precise tolerances, something that’s not conducive to economic volume production.

So I’m going to say everyone that wants that light, hi-output 2-stroke to lobby the sales department at BRP, because they’re the only ones in the game. If you do convince them to green light that, you may want to suggest also investing in a line of gearcases that will handle everything you’re trying to accomplish, because Merc’s the only game in town for that, too. Good luck with all of that. Maybe if you want to gauge interest, you could start your own poll right here on screamandfly.com. Try to have a price figured out what this will all cost and what people will pay, as this needs to be profitable, too.

Until then, would you mind refraining from threadcrapping in threads that don’t interest you? That’d be appreciated.

[Capt.Insane-o]

BRP has to be thinking of countering with something for if not the 450 maybe the 400, maybe the Miami 2020 Show will show something.

All the ballyhoo aside BRP went were the money is, all the **** talk aside if you've ever driven an etec against the four strokes in the working mans engine market....enough said. Merc, Yammy, Zooki, Honder..those motors are about as exciting as paste. But I digress. The Merc 450's? cool as shiz..but about .05% of the scream and fly market will have one....and at 700 lbs the archaic 300 drag will have that ****er for lunch in the drags.

[madmatic]

Why is any one talking about 2 strokes on this 450r thread?i understand you die hard 2 stroke guys will never let it down but its over.. The stock hp wars are over and 4 strokes have won. This a 450hp package on 89 pump gas. add a tune for 91 or better yet e85 and i would expect to see 550-600hp. Note the solid prop shaft for this beast to handle the hp. Yes it is heavier but isnt that because its on the verado mid section? Mercury says this engine is based on the 300r which is the same block (minus cams) as a 200hp v8. So slap on the blower, upgrade the cooling and tune it for 550hp and you might still be under 30k. We just need to get our hands on one of the superchargers to start marking coppies (not exact just for fitment). I doubt we will see any hot 2 strokes left on the water in 10 years other than the rare ones which will be considered classics

[HydroSkreamin]

Merc, Yammy, Zooki, Honder..those motors are about as exciting as paste. But I digress. The Merc 450's? cool as shiz..but about .05% of the scream and fly market will have one....and at 700 lbs the archaic 300 drag will have that ****er for lunch in the drags.

I couldn’t agree more. It’s going to take people like us to adapt any of the 4-strokes to lighter tubular midsections and put our own electronics on to be able to do cams, compression, bore & stroke, etc..

The alternative is to start developing more aftermarket parts to keep older technology alive. One thing is for sure; people like us usually don’t sit back and watch, so I, for one, am excited to see where the solutions come from for the small go-fasts.

[engineermike]

Actually no, the short ex port to ex port distances of travel are more efficient than the long distance run to the end of a can and return to the originating ex port. What's important is the optimal range of arrival in degrees prior to port closing. At slow speeds the arrival is considerably early. As crank rotation speed increases that arrival becomes " later" in respect to port closing. At top rpm it's the optimum range.
The rave permits that arrival to be delayed at low rpm to be near or at optimum range...

Specific output of anything with an actual expansion chamber says that it works far better than trying to get the pulses of a V engine to be timed correctly.

[engineermike]

Funny you should say that fifth grade is when I learned car motors don't belong in boats. . .

Jimmy Wynn and Charlie Strang disagree. They are famous now.

Investing in new casting technology is something they needed, choosing to use it to build car motors is a cheap way out. The r and d has been done already by car manufacturers. Saves money on engineering. . .

How is investing in the largest die-casting machine in NA something they "needed"? The other manufacturers don't have one; I guess they didn't need it? You're really grasping at straws in your quest against the 4-stroke.

I too had jet ski's when they went 4 joke is when I quit. They were big heavy and no fun. Not light nimble and playful. . .

Now that you know about the Sea-Doo Spark, I expect you'll be at the dealership this weekend buying one? They even have the lower hp levels of the old 2-stroke skis you fondly remember!