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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    I just got off the phone with the president . I got him to sign an executive order squashing the "no child left behind" laws ....

    Since we all (should) know by now that between , expanding exhaust pressure , a piston carrying ( flywheel effect ) momentum pushing the spent charge out a relatively large hole and a conduit that provides a scavenging effect .
    It becomes easy to see that emptying the cylinder is easy compared to having only 14.7 psi of atmospheric pressure to start the process of filling it .

    Thank-you Chaz.
    A bazillian years ago, when I was a child, I had a Bultaco (Serpa S) motorcycle.
    It is a real pipey 2 stroke and has light switch for a throttle.
    It idled fairly fast and had a power band about 14 rpm wide and that happened around 9,000 rpm. (numbers could be slightly adjusted to enhance story)
    We rode as a group and did a lot of trail riding and hill climbing and the light switch bike just wasn't fun.
    Soooooo, I cut the chamber off, ran a 2" pipe from the head back past the foot pegs and off we went.
    Absolutely -0- top end but you could pop the clutch @ idle and it would chug away. It would go flat about 1/2 way to its top horsepower
    I'm thinkin this thing needs some squeeze like the expansion pipe and stinger puts on it. I reach back with my foot and cover up most of the end of the pipe and the bike starts rolling, the tighter I squeezed it the higher the rpms went.
    Yahoo! I had an adjustable stinger exhaust in 1963, I wonder if I could market it. (I'm gonna need better leather for my boots.)
    If you held the motor squeezed and max rpm long enough it would overheat and stick the piston, If you clutched it early enough, the air going over the barrel would cool it enough for it to come loose.

    Just some of the dumb **** you do when your a kid.

    Don't try this with your outboard. ;-)
    Wriggleys gum makes me think of boating, "Double your engines, Double your fun"



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  3. #197
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    Nice Pair , nice response , really nice practical reason that some don't get it . They have never spent much , if any time on "pipey" 2 stroke motorcycles .
    No amount of pages of text will be able to explain the difference between the feeling of a "droning open megaphone" and that of one that "comes on the pipe" and tries to throw ya off the back ...

    ( I remember sitting in the McDonalds {1976} on Van Nyes Blvd. and looking across the street and seeing Steve's Bultaco and Hank the Crank's shops were next door to each other and thinking , somehow I thought they would be bigger )

    cemoto



    A little more bell mouth this time ... >


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  5. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Nice Pair , nice response , really nice practical reason that some don't get it . They have never spent much , if any time on "pipey" 2 stroke motorcycles .
    No amount of pages of text will be able to explain the difference between the feeling of a "droning open megaphone" and that of one that "comes on the pipe" and tries to throw ya off the back ...

    ( I remember sitting in the McDonalds {1976} on Van Nyes Blvd. and looking across the street and seeing Steve's Bultaco and Hank the Crank's shops were next door to each other and thinking , somehow I thought they would be bigger )

    cemoto



    A little more bell mouth this time ... >

    Would love to have a pair of your "4 liters" on my boat. ;-)
    Wriggleys gum makes me think of boating, "Double your engines, Double your fun"



  6. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by NICE PAIR View Post
    Would love to have a pair of your "4 liters" on my boat. ;-)
    It's "nice" of you to say that ...
    Speaking of that , when I bored the sleeve registers to final size . I looked down the hole and said ... These babies could easily go out another "hunnert fitty thousandths" ..
    To do so would require the outside to either be all welded up or epoxied to where I could get enough depth to the port runner to feed a 667 cc cylinder . Not that would be a totally bad thing . But it would definitely take away the relatively stock looking outward appearance ..
    As it stands (for) now . With a 3.0L crank they are 3462 cc and with a 3.2 crank they come out to 3642 cc's with more than enough runner depth and width to support either a 577 or 607 cc cylinder without having to get too crazy ..

    Next in line was the "oversized" billet blocks I had machined up . It takes some work to get them to fit the front half , but nothing too hateful . I wanted to open the hole up anyway . As the rod is moving away from BDC , it's size and angularity does a good job of blocking the only way in ...
    Chris Carson made up the tooling and ran a few sets of reeds for me that fit perfectly ...




  7. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    It's "nice" of you to say that ...
    Speaking of that , when I bored the sleeve registers to final size . I looked down the hole and said ... These babies could easily go out another "hunnert fitty thousandths" ..
    To do so would require the outside to either be all welded up or epoxied to where I could get enough depth to the port runner to feed a 667 cc cylinder . Not that would be a totally bad thing . But it would definitely take away the relatively stock looking outward appearance ..
    As it stands (for) now . With a 3.0L crank they are 3462 cc and with a 3.2 crank they come out to 3642 cc's with more than enough runner depth and width to support either a 577 or 607 cc cylinder without having to get too crazy ..

    Next in line was the "oversized" billet blocks I had machined up . It takes some work to get them to fit the front half , but nothing too hateful . I wanted to open the hole up anyway . As the rod is moving away from BDC , it's size and angularity does a good job of blocking the only way in ...
    Chris Carson made up the tooling and ran a few sets of reeds for me that fit perfectly ...



    I was reasonably afraid if I said a "Nice Pair" of your 4 liters, you'd have me thrown off the site. ;-)

    If you need a test boat ... "I'm your Huckleberry" (I think that line came from a movie)
    Wriggleys gum makes me think of boating, "Double your engines, Double your fun"



  8. #201
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    I CAN ALWAYS MAKE ANOTHER DOLLAR, BUT I CANNOT MAKE ANOTHER DAY

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  10. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by NICE PAIR View Post

    If you need a test boat ... "I'm your Huckleberry" (I think that line came from a movie)
    I know you have a "nice boat" . No need to test it ... I'm sure it would be up to the task ....

    It's amazing how much Doc Holliday's great grandson looks just like him ....


  11. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORBESAUTO View Post
    I don't think they are saying it's not tuned, just not in the same way and as effective as an expansion chamber tuned exhaust is. I feel the outboard exhaust system does a pretty good job on the scavanging part of tuning. On the stuffing part there's a lot to be desired. I feel you get a small amount and not nearly as efficient of stuffing from the initial pressure wave of the next in line fired cylinder that can somewhat stuff the closing exhaust of the previously fired cylinder. Only problem is with 3 cylinders there is no equal pairs or all equal lengths to work effectively. And cylinders 5 and 6 are the ones that get left out and have no correctly timed means of stuffing, therefore get the most issues. This is why it's so important to close the door at the right time to prevent from loosing much of your fresh charge. This is also the reason you will notice that most Outboard's run less blowdown degrees between the exhaust and transfers than a well tuned expansion chamber motor would for the same rpm range, because there is not an efficient way to put it back in. JMO
    In a merc v6, 1/2 are the weakest holes. 5/6 are the strongest. The diffuser is effective, but isn't significant. Alterations are visabke on a dyno and in telemetry. But johnny six pack test driving it will never feel it with his calibrated butt dyno.
    2023 TUFF 25

  12. #204
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    Unless you have a calibrated accelerometer up your butt!

  13. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBT View Post
    In a merc v6, 1/2 are the weakest holes. 5/6 are the strongest. The diffuser is effective, but isn't significant. Alterations are visabke on a dyno and in telemetry. But johnny six pack test driving it will never feel it with his calibrated butt dyno.
    Which one is johnny?

    Attachment 396033
    Wriggleys gum makes me think of boating, "Double your engines, Double your fun"



  14. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    I know you have a "nice boat" . No need to test it ... I'm sure it would be up to the task ....

    It's amazing how much Doc Holliday's great grandson looks just like him ....

    "Nice answer"

    "Amazing"
    Wriggleys gum makes me think of boating, "Double your engines, Double your fun"



  15. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBT View Post
    In a merc v6, 1/2 are the weakest holes. 5/6 are the strongest. The diffuser is effective, but isn't significant. Alterations are visabke on a dyno and in telemetry. But johnny six pack test driving it will never feel it with his calibrated butt dyno.

    Never said 5 and 6 was the weakest, said that they wouldn't get any of very little available stuffing. The point was these motors are more about scavanging which goes along with your statement. 5 and 6 get the best scavanging and least stuffing which is why I claimed are the ones that get fried the most.
    Last edited by FORBESAUTO; 01-02-2018 at 11:14 AM.

  16. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onetime View Post
    Unless you have a calibrated accelerometer up your butt!
    The calibration/installation methods?

    Chaz, how would this fair on your reed plate?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I CAN ALWAYS MAKE ANOTHER DOLLAR, BUT I CANNOT MAKE ANOTHER DAY

  17. #209
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    It would look like two of them stacked on top of each other . One with butterflies , the other with the butterflies removed . So I would say , not very good .

    I'm a big fan of all the cylinders drawing air from a common area after it is metered .
    I have some of the parts complete to build a sheet metal plenum with the air inlet out front . But that is a "down the road" project .

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  19. #210
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    Does the inlet being at the top have different effects for the closest ports as opposed to the furthest(bottom) ports, or is the plenum pretty much equal for all? I've seen on some race manifolds for autos how they sort of collapse the plenum down towards the rear. What would be the purpose there?
    I CAN ALWAYS MAKE ANOTHER DOLLAR, BUT I CANNOT MAKE ANOTHER DAY

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