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Thread: F1h20 4 stroke Merc v8 variant.
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10-17-2019, 08:40 PM #76
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10-17-2019, 09:19 PM #775000 RPM
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10-17-2019, 10:01 PM #78Supporting Member
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Whaaat was I thinking. Your hobby is obviously over- so go back to trying to figure out why there are two people in a race boat, continue to build your light weight fully suspended cockpit for your "gonna be better then everything out there" boat, or better yet design a better outboard that appeals to the masses (not everyone is stuck in the 80's, and if you are, now is a great time to escape while the economy is good). Last of all sell anything that you have that says Mercury on it and start over with another marine performance vendor if their current product is so bad and their previous product lines are that unsupported (good luck).
You are blind to the real world and the products that have a valid large demand base.
I too have product that is no longer supported by Mercury. I have product that is no longer supported by Ford. The bottom line is stay within 15 years of the current model and you can still buy parts-if you love vintage then do what others do "collect spare parts-its not rocket science"
Joe
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10-17-2019, 10:20 PM #79Supporting Member
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Charlie,
The facts of history are that nothing has ever performed as well as what we have available today "out of the box". I bought my first new 2.4 in 1988 and have had several new 2.5 and 3.0 motors since then. I personally think that the 300X was the best motor available for the last 16 years-others loved the XS and I appreciate mine it for its fuel economy but I ran over 200 miles today with the 300Rs and can assure you that the new motors are a joy and I had no concern of where I was going to get fuel or what I had to add to my fuel. On top of that, the torque out of the turns is absolutely addictive.
Joe
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10-17-2019, 10:43 PM #80
You flag *** flapping four stroke homos are nauseating
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10-18-2019, 07:45 AM #81
I threw up along time ago when we had this dilemma over motocross powerplants and look where we are now with many companies revisiting the 2 stroke due to big power/weight/cost gains with current technology.. Many are finding the 4 blows were not the golden child they were sold on when it comes to a serious high performance motorsport powerplant. Disclaimer-i'm not talking about pontoons, centerconsoles and 30 footers.. 4 strokes are fine there just like in my chevy truck,oh yea on truck engines,someone said an LS wont hold up at WOT tell that to 7 marine.. really. I think the big fight on here is some are talking 30 foot cat and some are on a 18 foot hot rod and this new platform isn't a good fit for the latter (What we have here is failure to communicate so you get what we have here today which is the way we want it, a good alt argument.. lol... Yes merc is the only one in the fight today buuutttt.... say bye bye to all the small case sportys so we will be stuck with a massive sterndrive gearcase which =s back to cones and putty.. that blows in salt water, A new platform that will be marginal to say the least for what most of us do so yes some like me are pissed at what is happening.. Ok one question who on here has rebuilt a v6 4 stroke outboard, and don't give me that BS they don't blow up the scrap yards here are full of dead blocks.. Dave
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10-18-2019, 08:11 AM #82Screaming And Flying!
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Thanks h20perf
Thats what i was getting at why force engines designed for production market on race classes.
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10-18-2019, 08:19 AM #83Supporting Member
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Capt,
One thing I don't take into consideration "as much as I should" when I comment on my experience with the new motors is the water resource that I have available to me. It would not mean nearly as much to me if I lived on or took my boat to a typical lake. We run on a body of water that goes 110 miles North from where we put in and we can run 60 miles South of that point (all fresh water) and I can run year round. So a 280 or even my 300X on the STV or Allison becomes a limitation with range and or fuel availability. These are moot issues with the new product.
When I lived in Michigan and went to Hardy, Gun Lake, Coldwater, Cadillac, etc. 28 gallons was fine for the day and hanging out at the sandbar but down here I actually boat way more then I park.
Also, I am in no way saying that a 300R is going to replace a drag for fun on a small lake but as everyone has seen for the last 8 years "wake boats have taken the days of running fast from most places" and we are pretty much forced to move into bigger hulls if we want to continue to run performance boats on busy waterways.
The comments that I don't understand are the ones that bash the only company giving us performance outboard power options-yet they all still have one hanging on the back of their boat and this the ignorance that comes marching out. "Be thankful that we have the offerings that we do, be thankful that they provided the product that they did in the past, and be thankful that there are so many parts out there for us to scrounge up so that we can rebuild if we choose to keep the old stuff". I have five 2.5 motors right now that Mercury no longer offers pistons, some gaskets, and other pieces for and yes its a disappointment but I certainly don't blame them for not wanting to build past models or parts that don't sell and the last thing that I would do is bash them or their current product line because of it.
Joe
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10-18-2019, 08:36 AM #84Screaming And Flying!
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GM seems to compete in aftermarket and old product support, just sayin
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10-18-2019, 08:41 AM #85Supporting Member
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10-18-2019, 08:51 AM #86
Joe, I get it .. However as you can see, it's not for everybody. Guy's don't want to build their own from scratch (I'm stupid enough, maybe if I was younger ) and they are not ignorant for wanting the company they supported most of their adult boating life to still support them with reasonably priced parts. And after all, they still own the tooling to do so.
If it's for F1H2O : then OK , Mercosil, Nicosil, Titanium, Unobtanium, $100,000.00 a copy. It kills racing, but I get it.
For the masses : Joe and Joe Jr. as responsible owners of a 300R decide it's time to change oil before they go out for the evening ride. Joe get's an important call he must take, Joe Jr says I got it ... he puts the drain plug in finger tight, just as he is ready to put a wrench on it his girlfriend texts ... he texts her back and then put the correct amount of oil back in. Yes of course, the plug falls out. As usual the hole farthest away from the pump is the first to take the hit ... It's not Merc's fault, so they won't stand behind it.
I looked , I don't see part numbers or prices for : a crank, crank bearings, a rod, rod bearings .... wait for it ...... a .015 over piston kit .
OK so add a STD piston kit and a block, opps, stuck one cam in the head as well, add a cam and head to the list. And a O-ring and gasket kit, and dont forget a new drain plug ..
No part numbers or price sheet on any of the big online outlets. The guys with the old stuff shouldn't feel so bad, Merc don't give a **** about the V-8 guys either ..
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10-18-2019, 09:02 AM #87
Damnit Chaz... i wanted someone to come on here and say they rebuilt one so we could call bull shizit cause there is no oversize anything no aftermarket anything, yes several main bearings are listed but thats bc they are for specific journal/block configurations not oversize applications. They are not meant to be rebuilt Disclaimer again- I dont't call a hialeah pulled a piston out of this one put it that one swaped heads on these two ect. a rebuild.
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10-18-2019, 09:49 AM #88Supporting Member
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Charlie,
I am glad to know enough dealers, witnessed enough warranty claims, and know enough of the Merc. Racing employees on a personal level to not have the same feeling that you do based on your last sentence or I would get out it all together. You and I have different view points and they are growing further apart as I age. At this point I really want turn key drive-ability but still like the overwhelming performance sensation so production Vs. custom "if available" is my go to. I also don't have the knowledge, time or resources for one off custom stuff along with the labor required to keep it running "as you are experiencing with your new motors".
I really look at this as another step forward towards the rush that I get out of running the boats. I have always craved having "too much" from the time that I got my first new open class big bore (13 years old) that you had to short shift in order to not get worn out. This "too much" is an easier feeling to obtain with both my getting older and technology continuing to improve. I obtained it for the first time last year with my snowmobile. In 45 years of riding and building sleds "a pump fuel trail-able four stroke turbo" yes, I got the same sensation out of the drag sleds "big bore two strokes but there was no consistency, took race fuel, and were rattle traps in comparison" the bikes when I built the turbo busa (spent thousands with George Bryce previous to that) until Suzuki came out with the 1300s, cars when I had my early 2000 Z06 supercharged by Lingenfelter "today I can buy more then that off the showroom floor", watercraft when the GP1300 got triple pipes and RIVA mods "all total custom and you had to chase the tune non-stop"-today, you go buy new Yamaha SHO, add a couple of parts and its way more usable then what I had. The UTV market is no different, when the 660 Rhino came out "we thought it was great"-today its a worthless as a trail machine compared to the new Maverick, RZR or YXZ. With some slight modifications to this new V-8 platform it will do the same for my STV, Allison, LCB, 24, and 28 if I can ever afford to make any of it happen-at least the base is available "like all of the other personally experienced examples given-I am one step closer".
If I had the money, a new 32 Doug Wright with 450s puts me in the same "too much" zone. Yes its expensive-no I can't afford it-but I love the fact that its turn key and available.
Joe
P.S.-I will make sure to check the oil everytime. Learned the hard way at a young age "if you are adding gas, check to see it needs oil too".
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10-18-2019, 11:11 AM #89
The "bad" I'm experiencing with my motor's .. ???
Instead of act like you know, you should ask me. I have nothing to hide.
The bad, was driver error. I thought I was a kid again, doing 90 MPH power wheelies on my 400 Maico .. and burping it to a wheelie stop just before the manatee zone signs. Yep, I filled one with water and it hydrauliced. So I'm out six sleeves, six pistons and a 225 EFI core. About $2500 total (retail). Now I could say **** the 20 or so work orders I have in the rack and work on my own stuff. Or I can be responsible and mess with the "next set" on the weekends if i still feel like working ...
Just so ya know, you were right that day at lunch a big bore 3.0L make's a ton of power. At 160 psi cranking I did need to carry a gallon of Klotz/Toluene mix if I planned to hit a gas station. I usually bring that much oil along, so what's another gallon.
Back to my point, which you have ducked, and avoided like a hooker with AIDS over many different threads, posts etc.
Don't be naive and think that somewhere down the road, someone is not going to leave a drain plug loose. Someone is going to melt one down. When wty. tell's them to take a hike .. can they call you, to use your connections with the top tier players at Mercury to "get it handled" ...
No .. bout the best they will do at the parts counter right now, is point the poor sap to the showroom where he can buy another new one ...
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10-18-2019, 07:38 PM #905000 RPM
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With some slight modifications to this new V-8 platform it will do the same for my STV, Allison, LCB, 24, and 28 if I can ever afford to make any of it happen-at least the base is available "like all of the other personally experienced examples given-I am one step closer".
Please, please, please, do this! Take that overweight, top heavy, 20 inch motor, with its 6 inch wide gear case, and its 40 pitch props, and bolt it to your allison! Show all of us more mortals the sins of our simple lightweight 2 stroke ways.
Alas the prophet jperog has come to show us the the path to mercury 4joke salvation.
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