Saltwater-Friendly SOB Family 20-22 footers with modern 4 strokes?

[Jupiter24]

I have a 2021 Allison Grand Sport with a 150proxs and did cone the case and change the gears and I live on Long Island. I use the boat in only salt water. There are no lakes or rivers anywhere near me. The carpet is annoying but I haven’t have any issues at all with it. I also owned a 1997 21’ Superboat for about 12 years which is also a great boat but very different from the Allison. I would prefer the floor on my old boat which is the textured none skid kinda floor over seadeck or certainly carpet but again no issues with mine so far. Unfortunately you arent going 90+ with any modern four stroke that doesnt have a coned case of some sort without voiding a warranty unless you get a v8 R which weight about 560lb which would suck on almost any fast 21' and under boat. But if you dont mind coning a V6 and throwing solid mounts on running 90 plus or the 150 proxs and cone the case and run low 80's not sure what other options you have. As far as the cost of the gear swap is about the cost of a good prop which for me is well worth it. I dont know if there is a many places that are like where i boat, the variety of water conditions and boat traffic is really something, i can drive in the flats without any boats or much chop or drive the main channels with 60ft plus giant yachts in all directions or even be in the inlet and out by the ocean in just minutes, pretty huge variety by me. THe GS handles better then any other 19/20ft boat that i have been in. But i can take my 21 superboat out the ocean, you arent doing that in any of these small fast boats. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Attachment 492879

Thank you for the detailed response! Did you run the boat with the 150 pro XS stock at all or did you immediately have it coned and gears changed? If you ran it stock, what was the best it ran with no mods? Did you consider the 175 pro XS at all, or not really?

If you're running it in the channel with other large boats / yachts, are you able to slow down and go over wakes sideways without stuffing the bow into wakes and waves? Are you able to run out the inlet at slow-ish speeds on a really calm day? I know that even though the GS is a "20 foot boat", I know its not going to have the roughwater handling capabilities of a 20 foot deep V center console (which is realistically what I SHOULD get in south FL, but I want something fast!). I'm trying to get a feel for what the boat is comparable to, in terms of water handling - not sure if its maybe more comparable to an 18 or 20 foot bay boat, or maybe an 18-20 foot flats boat even. I was out in the ocean on my dads Scout 251 XS hybrid bay boat this past weekend and there were 2 flats boats out near shore where we were - an 18 foot action craft, and another 18 foot custom build flats boat - I feel like the GS would have no problem running in those conditions where an 18' flats boat can run? When I was in high school, we used to run out the inlet in 13 whalers, so I know you CAN make dumb choices in any boat!

How do you find the room / size of the boat compared to other boats in its class, or other boats you've been on in general? My last boat was a Pioneer 175 dual console (18 foot), and my wife and I were saying we were kind of tired of sitting, so I was trying to find the fastest bay boat I could to scratch the speed itch with a center console. I knew nothing about sport boats, so I wasn't aware how vast the performance differences were between something like an Allison or Tuff vs a bay boat - seeing that a GS or Tuff has nearly twice the speed of most bay boats, maybe I don't mind sitting so much. I like that the GS has that big sun pad behind the rear bench, so it seems like you get a little extra usable space versus other 20 foot sport boats. Just not sure if the 2 buckets and the bench are a reasonable amount of space for cruising to sandbars, or if its pretty cramped for 2 adults and a small child.

I hear the superboat mentioned a lot as a good offshore / roughwater hull, but I don't think they're still in production. I like that the Allison GS is still being made, and if I wanted to, I could custom order one exactly how I wanted it. I'm kind of hoping that a year from now when I'm ready to buy, in that time Merc will have come out with a 225R or something similar. My wife and I were at a Key West dealership a couple weekends ago - my top choice for a 100% family oriented boat would be a 203FS with a 200 Pro XS. I think this would do like 55ish MPH if set up right? My top choice for "pretty family oriented and more performance" is a 210 bay reef with a 250 Pro XS - I think a member here was saying he hit 71-72mph with that setup - i'd expect 68ish with a t-top. But I can't stop looking at pics of the Allison GS's - if I could find the right new motor setup, or if Merc wakes up and releases a 225R, I don't think I could resist a 100mph boat that the family can still enjoy, if it actually meets my needs.

TooStroked - I've heard good things about the Progression 22 also, but I don't think these are still being made?

[OceanMarine]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eIaBqPHdjQ8https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eIaBqPHdjQ8

Just wrote a giant reply and lost it.

anyway here’s the now short version. The GS for me sucked without a coned case it was damn near impossible to drive over 60 with the motor that deep. But to be fair I knew I was coning it so I didn’t waste time or money in different props made to run deep or tweaking that setup. It runs much better with a coned case. If you’re worried about warrantee you can just get a older verado case with 1.85 gears already in it and cone that. Keep your stock case for warrantee claims or when you sell. The weight of the 175proxs at a true 515-520lbs was not appealing to me for just another 25hp. But I think you could do it. But at that point you mine as well just get the v6 225 and put the R motor mounts in it put a sporty on it or cone it and you got a 100mph boat. If low 80’s is enough for you the 150 is great. Mercury will have to release a v6 200R likely a 15” motor with a sporty to replace the 200xs ROS it’s just a matter of time. The GS has a crap ton of storage way more then any other small fast boat I’ve been in. Takes chop well and wakes well for its size no doubt it’s actually very surprising. I can launch some wakes pretty good, the giant ones from 50ft plus boats I try to sort of go sideways and ride them out or sometimes if the kids are onboard just come slightly off plane. But haven’t stuffed it yet so that’s good lol. Honestly it Rides great. Zero weird handling traits and zero porpoise which always did annoy the crap out of me in other boats including my old boat. I can and do regularly fit 4 or 5 adults and 2 or 3 kids with everybody’s beach chairs, coolers, etc all tucked away it’s actually amazing how much you can fit in this small boat. But doesn’t have the overall size and freeboard of the 21’ Linder style boats and really can’t go in the ocean generally speaking. The 21’ Linder style boats were designed here on LI for rough water and for their size do a good job of that. With big power they run 95-100mph with some going over 100mph here. They too are weight sensitive. While they can handle additional motor weight you loose rough water capability as you throw the balance off from the design. But for a boat designed in the 1970’s it’s still to me the gold standard of a go fast boat that can still be taken out in the ocean. A designed copied and tweaked all over the world. The molds are still out there and the boats are still being made just not by Superboat and obviously the original challenger and shadows are long gone. Predator boats on Long Island has the original shadow mold they bought from intimidator and are producing 21’s and yes the 22’ progression is still being made also on LI. So honestly it comes down to what you want to do with the boat. They can’t really be compared to the boats you’ve mentioned. But if you think you want to spend any time in the ocean then don’t be looking at an Allison you would need at minimum a 21’ Linder style boat. If the bay is where you’ll spend your time no issues at all with the Allison. Now if Allison would just release that damn 23’ Grand Sport that would be the ultimate boat for me around these parts most likely.

any chance anybody around you has a Grand Sport or a 21’ Linder style boat that can give you a ride? Then you’d have a better idea.

here’s just a quick video of what we use ours for most of the time
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eIaBqPHdjQ8

[Pulse186]

I've heard good things about the Progression 22 also, but I don't think these are still being made?

Yes, they are still being made. If you want a new one for next year you'll want to order it now, they are at least one year out and probably longer.

[TooStroked]

TooStroked - I've heard good things about the Progression 22 also, but I don't think these are still being made?

Yes, they're still being made and yes, they take rough water well. As proof, I offer the shot below from 2 years ago. (Yes, it was every bit as ugly as it looks, but the boat took it just fine.) I should note that trim tabs are required for running true rough water and when the picture below was shot, the boat still had the original 2.5 / 200 Mercury on it. The new 4.6 / 250 is indeed heavier and does change the handling of the boat somewhat, but I have yet to find it unacceptable.

I should also note that this particular boat is going on 30 years old and has spent the majority of it's life on Lake Ontario - which gets rough as hell. So do they hold up to rough water? Oh yea!

[hellbents-10]

Every time I see that blue Progression I want one!!!

[David]

What about the 21’ Allison fishing boats?

[JBS]

There is a new 24-ft specter on Facebook for sale that has a good price. Might be worth a look,no affiliation.
See post below.

[JBS]

Spectre 24/2021
Custom stainless Bimini arch, Seadeck,Simrad Go9000,trailer with brakes, custom cover low hour 225 opti, offered @ $56k
727-773-5603

[moatorbotin]

If I was going to boat often where I could go out in the ocean, or run into cruiser wakes, I'd be looking at a progression 22 or 24LD.

I had a 24LD and I will say it was one of the nicest riding boats I have owned.

In comparison, I had a chance to take my Triad V-21 out on big water over the weekend, which by all accounts folks say rides well in the rough. In fairness, it does ride exceptionally well considering the wide pad, shallow V and overall size of the boat. But it doesn't compare to my 24LD. Ironically, my wife did like the way that it rode compared to our 28' sunsation we just sold. Granted I had to drive much more calculated and much slower, it did 'ride' better.

Anyway, I guess my point is that the smaller "lake" boats like the GS and the V-21 do very well for their size, but I'd size up to the 21 Superboat, 22 progression, 22 Activator for your described use. You'll get a slightly bigger cockpit, an easier to access bow/storage area/cabin, and a little more freeboard.

[pearlriverrat]

Hello all, I'm new here and have been reading tons of old posts on the various SOB boats. I absolutely love the Allison Grand Sports, but my first issue is that I can't find many posts about using them solely in saltwater. With the carpet, I know they're more of a lake boat, but I was figuring I could make it work. The bigger issue is that I have no interest in working on and maintaining an older 2 stroke that a lot of these boats were built for. I'm looking for something that can be bought new, or close to new, with modern 4 stroke power, so I can take the wife and future kids out and have a reliable all around cruising boat, and then go run it 80-90+ with just me on early mornings. Mercury's only real option for the GS is the 150 pro XS, then have it re-geared, or the V6 175-225 and then modify the lower unit - not ideal.

I love the Tuff 21 and probably the upcoming Tuff 20, but these are basically impossible to find.
Checkmate Pulsare 2000 / 2100 looks decent but the looks don't do it for me like the Allison GS does
Liberator 21 looks awesome but the seating/layout and storage looks a lot smaller than a GS, and they're considerably more money
Paramount 21 / Reaction 19 isn't too bad but they're not nearly as fast, and they're super old at this point - I'm looking for something newer and more turn-key reliable
Concept 23/27 I love, but the new build prices are out of my price range at this point

If somebody told me "I've used the Allison GS in saltwater for years and its the best boat i've ever had, run it with a new Mercury V6 225 4 stroke or Pro XS 175 4 stroke", I'd probably just set my sights on that, but as it stands, I don't know that anybody makes a good modern 90+mph engine for it without spending tons on mods and voiding the brand new motor warranty.

What are some good 20-22 foot saltwater friendly fast outboard boats, that have comfortable seating, reasonable storage and room, and can take some south florida chop, and run out the inlet on the flat summer days? Is the new Tuff 20 likely my ticket - no idea what these cost, and would probably be impossible to get one - just go for a checkmate? What have I not considered?

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthr...a-Mercury-300R

[282]

Active Thunder boats makes a Banshee 22 looks really nice

[OceanMarine]

The old 21’ Superboat in action and Some grand sport action on the Great South Bay
Still my two favorite boats of all time. Just need to decide what you want to use them for.

[Jupiter24]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eIaBqPHdjQ8https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eIaBqPHdjQ8

Just wrote a giant reply and lost it.

anyway here’s the now short version. The GS for me sucked without a coned case it was damn near impossible to drive over 60 with the motor that deep. But to be fair I knew I was coning it so I didn’t waste time or money in different props made to run deep or tweaking that setup. It runs much better with a coned case. If you’re worried about warrantee you can just get a older verado case with 1.85 gears already in it and cone that. Keep your stock case for warrantee claims or when you sell. The weight of the 175proxs at a true 515-520lbs was not appealing to me for just another 25hp. But I think you could do it. But at that point you mine as well just get the v6 225 and put the R motor mounts in it put a sporty on it or cone it and you got a 100mph boat. If low 80’s is enough for you the 150 is great. Mercury will have to release a v6 200R likely a 15” motor with a sporty to replace the 200xs ROS it’s just a matter of time. The GS has a crap ton of storage way more then any other small fast boat I’ve been in. Takes chop well and wakes well for its size no doubt it’s actually very surprising. I can launch some wakes pretty good, the giant ones from 50ft plus boats I try to sort of go sideways and ride them out or sometimes if the kids are onboard just come slightly off plane. But haven’t stuffed it yet so that’s good lol. Honestly it Rides great. Zero weird handling traits and zero porpoise which always did annoy the crap out of me in other boats including my old boat. I can and do regularly fit 4 or 5 adults and 2 or 3 kids with everybody’s beach chairs, coolers, etc all tucked away it’s actually amazing how much you can fit in this small boat. But doesn’t have the overall size and freeboard of the 21’ Linder style boats and really can’t go in the ocean generally speaking. The 21’ Linder style boats were designed here on LI for rough water and for their size do a good job of that. With big power they run 95-100mph with some going over 100mph here. They too are weight sensitive. While they can handle additional motor weight you loose rough water capability as you throw the balance off from the design. But for a boat designed in the 1970’s it’s still to me the gold standard of a go fast boat that can still be taken out in the ocean. A designed copied and tweaked all over the world. The molds are still out there and the boats are still being made just not by Superboat and obviously the original challenger and shadows are long gone. Predator boats on Long Island has the original shadow mold they bought from intimidator and are producing 21’s and yes the 22’ progression is still being made also on LI. So honestly it comes down to what you want to do with the boat. They can’t really be compared to the boats you’ve mentioned. But if you think you want to spend any time in the ocean then don’t be looking at an Allison you would need at minimum a 21’ Linder style boat. If the bay is where you’ll spend your time no issues at all with the Allison. Now if Allison would just release that damn 23’ Grand Sport that would be the ultimate boat for me around these parts most likely.

any chance anybody around you has a Grand Sport or a 21’ Linder style boat that can give you a ride? Then you’d have a better idea.

here’s just a quick video of what we use ours for most of the time
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eIaBqPHdjQ8

Thanks for the detailed response again - that video was basically exactly what I was looking for. All the videos of the GS show it running wide open with 1 person, which is what I personally want to do (lol), but it was great to see it running with some actual people on board - it looks pretty roomy for such a small boat. When you went over that large boat wake, it looks like its super easy to get the bow up high when you need to, which makes me think I'd have no problem in the ICW with boat traffic, and I'd be able to plow my way out the inlet barely on plane on flat days.

In terms of the GS having way more room and storage than other boats its size - that's what I liked about it when I first started looking at it. The Velocity 22, progression 22, even the Tuff 21 - they all look like they have less practical family / not-just-going-fast features, despite being overall bigger boats? I really like the sunpad on the back of the GS, so you can sit up a little higher going through idle zones if you want - none of the other ones seem to have this.

Its hard to find accurate pricing on these boats and motors - you said yours is a 2021 right? Would you mind telling me what the out the door price was on your GS / 150 pro XS package? You can PM it if you'd rather not list it here. The more I look at outboard prices online (who knows if they're accurate), a GS that goes 80 with a $15k 150hp seems like a relative bargain compared to a lot of other 21/22's that need ~$25-35k 250R/300R or 250/300 pro XS with LU swaps to hit a similar speed, or a couple more mph?

[OceanMarine]

Thanks for the detailed response again - that video was basically exactly what I was looking for. All the videos of the GS show it running wide open with 1 person, which is what I personally want to do (lol), but it was great to see it running with some actual people on board - it looks pretty roomy for such a small boat. When you went over that large boat wake, it looks like its super easy to get the bow up high when you need to, which makes me think I'd have no problem in the ICW with boat traffic, and I'd be able to plow my way out the inlet barely on plane on flat days.

In terms of the GS having way more room and storage than other boats its size - that's what I liked about it when I first started looking at it. The Velocity 22, progression 22, even the Tuff 21 - they all look like they have less practical family / not-just-going-fast features, despite being overall bigger boats? I really like the sunpad on the back of the GS, so you can sit up a little higher going through idle zones if you want - none of the other ones seem to have this.

Its hard to find accurate pricing on these boats and motors - you said yours is a 2021 right? Would you mind telling me what the out the door price was on your GS / 150 pro XS package? You can PM it if you'd rather not list it here. The more I look at outboard prices online (who knows if they're accurate), a GS that goes 80 with a $15k 150hp seems like a relative bargain compared to a lot of other 21/22's that need ~$25-35k 250R/300R or 250/300 pro XS with LU swaps to hit a similar speed, or a couple more mph?

yeah I got no issues going over wakes like that.

storage yes the GS has way way more storage then the 21’ Linder design and their offspring and similar boats. But the 21’s do have slightly more cockpit space.

again can’t go wrong with either just depends what you’re looking more to do.

[JDChase]

Check out the Chaudron pro s 22, wait time is only 1/3 that of Tuff...(that I do really like), price is just a little better and It seems the hull may be even better designed for some salt conditions. I will find out this spring!