My bud put the mad efi intake on today and it really woke it up.It picked up about 2mph.It runs right with the X.That is a mean mota for sure but it is ruff on gas.Simon you build a very good and strong mota.
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My bud put the mad efi intake on today and it really woke it up.It picked up about 2mph.It runs right with the X.That is a mean mota for sure but it is ruff on gas.Simon you build a very good and strong mota.
"woke it up", could you comment more? I'm looking to do the same on my 21 Skater w/300PM this year. Did it rev faster, etc?
Thanks Greg.
This is the package that his bud has http://www.simonmotorsports.com/page15.html it will out accelerate an x and run the same top speed with less rpm.
Eric,
Any packages in the works to massage the "X" motors for a few more HP?
What do you think the most room for improvement on these motors are in stock form?
Thanks-
Euroski,with the madefi the punch when you hit the gas is a bit better and the top numbers are better.Close to 2mph better on top.Man that thing sounds like a monster too.Eric i need that polished mota;) .
Serious question. My heavyweight 24SB runs better with less rpm's & a larger pitch prop. (300X)
-Are the stated results spinning the same prop? Understand better acceleration (more torque)...but how do you run the same or higher top speed with less rpm's without going up in pitch?
Thx. Bashhttp://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6959/bash3gi.gif
Don't know how to say it but i'll try.The power band on the simon is different.It puts out max power around 62-6300 but will turn up more but not much faster.Eric told us to run a bigger prop and less rpm's with better results.We ran a 30 performer at a tad less than 100 and with the 32 we ran 101 and didn't loss much on the hole shot and mid range punch.Eric can explain it better.
cant spin the same prop a nd get those results . and as one guy stated if its only 2 mph faster , than its NOT as fast as a 300x
Strange thing is, we cn spin the same prop at about the same rpm's and have different speeds:confused: .We ran 3 props so i think we did a good test on it.I guess eric will come on in the next couple hours and fill us in.Rite now it looks like the X has a little better top and the simon has a little better on bottom and mid.The way the mad efi system dumps fuel and air into that mota make a big difference.New price on a 300X is almost 19 grand,price on a simon mota is about 3500 or so less.Rock and a hard place,can'tgo wrong with any one of them.I WANT THE SIMON POLISHED MOTA;)
Jerry it was 2 MPH faster than the same motor with a SVS system, not the stock 300PM, althought a stock 300PM should put the boat close to what he was running with the Brucato SVS. You can also do this to any 3.0L, so if you start with a 225 and go to 335HP you'll obviously see bigger gains.
Simon or anyone else, has anyone used the 300XX intake from Mad Efi? I'd like to hear if it's worth the extra trouble, seems like double the parts to go wrong, but do the benefits outweigh the negatives? It sure would look cool with the cowl off at the ramp!
http://www.madefi.com/30mercury.htm
http://www.madefi.com/images/XXINTAKE.jpg
My 2 cents worth.i would think with the idle characteristics(sp) of the regular madd efi system,this one would be pretty bad.I think the simon mods with the svs puts the 300pm about 2-4mph faster on a bullet or stroker than the stock 300pm and another 1-2 with the mad efi intake.
mercs 19k motor is complete , simons is just a powerhead and its 7900.00 not 3500.00 ....Quote:
Originally Posted by ASPB
you spin the same rpms with 2 different powerheads and the same props at different speeds , your smoking something !!!!
Gimme 5 of those 350horse $3500.00 motors...& pass the bong. http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/3890/bash2px.gif
I believe you can buy the parts for 3500-4000 and bolt them on yourself. The extra money is for the rebuild which includes pistons, rings and balancing. Greg is trying to say if you all ready have a 3.0L it would save the cost of buying a new motor. Of course you could sell your current motor and make up some of the difference.
The X Spins to 6800-6900 RPM, The Simon motors like 6200-6400 RPM, that is the RPM difference, the two boats in question one was spinnging a 32P Performer on the Simon 335 and the other was spinning a 30P Performer on a 300X.
Ok thats was a mistake on my part for the price.I meant 3500 less than the 300x.Jerry i can show you better than i can tell ya.The different speeds could be in the boats,being than no boat is completely the same.And as far as smokin something,you may have been but that ain't my style,so keep your smoke to yourself.
jerry did not realize you were talking about 2 different boats . and like uncle jerry once said DONT BE A *** SMOKE THE WHOLE BAG !!!
Jerry, I've always wondered why you talk in 3rd person thru a stuffed dog?
Inquiring minds want to know?
SCT
Are You Talikng To Jerry ?
Kind strange on the rpm thing.Someone explain this to me.The simon mota makes it's best power at 6300 (may be off a little) and dosen't go any faster when they go up a little with the same prop we were told.More rpm with the same mota and prop should mean more speed:confused: We were told to run a bigger prop for bigger numbers with lower rpm's and that did work. :confused: :confused:
I think what was being said was that the motor makes peak HP at 6300 RPM, you want to prop it to run at peak for the most efficient results, but if you can spin the prop to the limiter 6400-6500 in this case you will gain speed, but you could go up in pitch and maybe run faster 200 RPM's less at 6300. At least that is what I read out of it. I'd spin what ever prop is on there as fast as it will go. Nasty needs to try that 34P Bravo.
Jerry Greg is ATL PD, he doesn't smoke anything but Bullets. LOL!
Eric showed a graph on the fastbass site that explains it all about the loss of power after a certain rpm.Thanks Eric.
one boat running an X turning a 30 at probably 6500-6800 and one boat running a simon335x turning a 32 spinning at 6300... speeds the same? Am I missing something here. I think what they were trying to say is the simon has more torque throughout the powerband and doesn't need to rev high to pull big numbers... it is better to run a 32 or 34 at 6000-6300 as an X wants to run in the 6500-6800 rpm range and might not pull as hard getting there and therefore you need to use a smaller pitch prop? Im super confused:confused:
Here is a dyno sheet of a 325hp svs 3.0l motor. the hp is the same from 5300 to 6700. the torque drops off past 5500. If you prop this motor to around 5500 it will be the fastest if you can get it there with that big of a prop. A good number to shoot for is 6200 becouse you can run a prop that will still accelerate and turn a good top end number. If you try to turn a smaller prop more rpm you run out of torque and the hp stays the same. On a 2.5 the hp goes up with rpm, that is not true with a 3.0l .
http://www.simonmotorsports.com/images/dyno325.jpg
What Eric Simon just stated is exactly true as experienced by Bash. With a 300X whether spinning a 23@ 6500 24@ 6200 or a 26 @5700...always had a average top speed of 76gps....but lacked low-mid range punch.
Bought a new a 21p figuring it would 1) up the r's to 6800rpm 2) Net the same top speeds 3) Increase overall performance. Well the top speed dropped 3-4 mph on the limiter....but the punch is awesome.
This all makes sense now. 300X 4SALE.
-Thx. Bashhttp://img74.imageshack.us/img74/7531/bash8dz.gif
Eric have you experimented with any porting to bring the torque curve up higher? I know you shoot for low end torque with these, but on a lighter setup where you'd benefit from spinning 7K would it be possible to shift that torque curve with porting? And have you had any success in doing so?
This is the family 3.0 built by MADD EFI.
It is a 300X block with 145 lbs of compression. It has the 6 intake with the programable fuel computer, MSD, light flywheel, 12" mid with a 2.5 lower unit. Also has a 135 hp NOS shot from Nitrox.
Was on my 19' Liberator and is currently mounted on Damage Inc's Mirage Polecat. The boat is set up for 700' drag racing. 26 yamaha with 1.87 gears. It turns 8400 in the 700' off the NOS and 9000 on. Those are real numbers.
It idles perfectly and runs great but we have had ever occuring problems with the MSD. In two weeks of testing before the Winternationals, it would run perfect for 2 days and then foul 2 to 4 plugs while idling. It seems the spark is just not consistant. Damage took it to the Winternationals and it took out the plugs before it moved 100 feet. Changed plugs and it made one good pass and down again.
The engine has 30 hours of nothing but drag passes and the associated running . A compression check yesterday showed it in perfect health. I would not recommend this set up for a ski boat but it is bad to the bone for lake racing.
LT
That looks to be bad to the bone.
I've got the Simon Motor with the mad efi and love it. The svs idles better if you idle for a long time, however the mad will obliterate it. The mad pulls extremely hard through the rpm's. That 101mph was only with three passes with that motor. The motor shut down because my main control plug was screwed up. I am going to run it again and I will report back on speed. She shut off at 101 and was pulling good when she shut down.
If you're into running the motor is bad azz. Plus Eric's customer service is second to none. If you get one you'll have a motor that haul's tail and looks great.
laketrash
that motor is sick looking. you really dont have to race , just take the cowling off. i think everyone will just say :eek:
Somebody Else On Here Had Some Cheesy Saying, Race One Or Chase One! Are You Sure They Werent Talking About A Simon Built 3 Litre???? Nothing Against Wayne, He Did A Lot Of Great Work For Me As Well, But,,,, Eric Is The Man!! Hands Down. No Better Service!period.
I feel I am lucky in that I have spent time with both Eric and Wayne over the years.
I have video of Eric when he was building motors in a little cubby hole at DCB. I think he was 14 at the time, at least he looked 14. A true southern California boy but a finer man would be hard to find.
Wayne, on the other hand, is an Alabama boy thru and thru.
The funny thing is how these completely different guys have worked together on how to make a 3.0 run. I do not know how they even communicate, let alone get anything done.
You could not go wrong with either of them.
LT
Thanks for the 300svs3.0liter power curve.Can you post one for the 300mad and one for the 300X?Thank you.
LT !
What a setup !
Please do you have any video of it playing ?
Would love to hear the sound.
Espen