Printable View
Hey guys, my names will, just joined the site, been doing some reading and I seen where allison does not like 3 litre motors on the xb2002, I actually have a 3.4 250 etec ho on mine and I love it. Gets great fuel economy with some decent speeds. Can anyone fill me in on why this is frowned upon? I also loaded a few pics of the setup on pg.2 thanks again for the welcoming
Welcome to the site that’s a heavy motor for a 02 what speeds u running ?
I had Bob's machine hook me up with the low water pickup I am running a 28 trophy 2 at 83 mph, have tried a 3 blade 30 with with same speeds, with a tourn. Load
Welcome aboard! Etec makes a great mota from everything I know about em but most guys LOVE Merc and being a recent convert to an old school V6 I can understand why. Plus all the parts, lowers, props and whatnot all tooled towards Merc makes it much easier to play gofast with them. Thats what its all about imo, not many disprove of ETEC, they just favor Merc is all.
But now that there are no more two strokes in Mercs camp, maybe that will change? Start putting up some BIG numbers with an ETEC and that will sway opinions im sure. If ETEC had some new super duper race props priced well, that alone would swing customers around on a dime.
"Welcome to the Jungle" ;-)
Loaded heavy and at only 80-85mph u probably never notice the weight problemQuote:
Originally Posted by Will hedrick
btw a 250 opti would have u over 100 if u could drive it just had to throw that out there :D
:iagree:Quote:
Originally Posted by speedinstream
Welcome to the site!
Welcome to S+F
Thanks guys, I hope to learn a lot from the knowledge here on what I can do to improve the performance of my setup.
welcome aboard...have fun.........................
Welcome to Scream And Fly Will!
Pics of your XB2002?
Lots of good info here........welcome aboard!!
This site is addictive. Jobs and relationships have suffered because of it!
Welcome aboard!!
I have been avidly reading everything allison for over 5 years every day. I own a xb03. The reason I believe it is frowned upon to run a motor heavier than a 2.5 liter mercury, is because Darris Allison believes that the likelihood of a barrel roll with the extra weight, is more likely. (yes, v-hulls will hook in certain conditions, but hook and roll is another thing) I believe Darris wants to ensure that his boats are as safe as a 100 mph boat can be, and so discourages the practice of using motors heavier, than what he says the boat was designed for. I certainly don't want to speak for Darris, it is just my observation and thought.
Pics of my boat
Attachment 421364
Bob done an absolutely amazing job on my lower
Will, Hi and Welcome to the site!
I have a XB2002 with a Mercury ProMax SS sitting back 13.5" off the transom, but feel even it's too heavy at rest. When I fish with a partner, full tank of gas, just two batteries, and half a livewell, the rub rails at the rear of the sponsons are at the waterline. I bought my boat brand new and it's one of the full composite models, but it's always been that way. My first motor was a 1986 GT150 on a 10" jack and it was worse.
I do like my boat, but it's deep-V and narrow 83" beam mine does not carry the weight like I'd want. I gotta say though, your's looks awesome with the Blue on Blue. I love those Stripes too! Too bad Evinrude does not offer 15" mid-sections. The change from a 20" motor to this 15" ProMax did wonders for the steering and balance, not to mention the 96.2 GPS that came with it.
Again, Welcome! Gordon
Attachment 421365
Hey Gordon thanks for the info. I'm running 3 24 class batteries (all in the back behind livewell) and 80 lb. Trolling motor with 2 200 lb guys gear loaded with the 28 4 blade I am turning 6400 rpm with a pretty insane holeshot when it falls over with all the torque that thing produces, 15" mid would greatly help as well as seeing if I could curve that 250 to 300 specs, I would love to see what changes that would bring out of it
I'm guessing that your rub rail is below the waterline at rest with the additional 200 or more lbs sitting at the rear. A deep cycle battery will add about 70 lbs and I'm guessing the big HO is 100~150 lbs over the 375 lbs ProMax. The lake I fish is big water and that can get rough with a thunderstorm. A dead engine could mean water over the transom and easy swamping/trouble - something I think about the older I get. I understand why Darris had those grave concerns. Be careful!
This is an old, crappy photo before and after I made the ProMax swap - This 26" Trophy is my fishing prop and delivers 2 people 86 mph with an impressive hole-shot. My 30" Chopper stays on the wall. I don't need to go that fast anymore and don't like the wear/tear on the gearcase when using it. The photo shows why the 15" fits these small boats better than the 20". My steering on the 20" was binding and the old Johnson did not have the beans to go past 78 mph. Darris was warning everyone back then not to use any of the available hydraulic steering system, so the opposing cables are all the XB2002 could run. I added reeds, LWP, Land & Sea mounts, and a 29" SRX....none of that delivered anywhere near the speed that Bass & Walleye Boats magazine had reported during their record runs. A change to a black motor worked magic...
Gordon
Attachment 421371Attachment 421372
My rails are close do not sit in the water. at least 3 inches out of the water loaded, now i'f both guys get on the back deck it will set the transom down, ( don't do that anymore after I triedto met a 5 lb.r for my partner) lol. I would love to know if I can raise the limiter safely, and what might have to be done to do so?
There are options out there, u can get the midsection cut and shortened to 16” , there’s a couple of people that do great job on them , that’s my next modification and u can also do a sportmaster conversion for better gear ratio and reliability
How high can you run your gearcase? I would expect that to limit the Etec speed.
Setup is where you need to work. 250 hp is enough to run a lot faster than you are.
finding the right balance left to right is number 1. Finding the correct motor height is number 2. When your ready to really tweak front to back balance....
a 250 mercury pushes my much heavier xb21 into the 90s. A 2.5 200 pushed my previous heavier xb2003 to 90.
You have enough hp to go as fast as you want.. likely the low gear ration in the etec will be the limitation
I'm not sure on how many rpms the gearcase can turn,Quote:
Originally Posted by David
I have thought about a15" mid, but don't know a good shop to do so, or roughly the cost. I know it is fat shaft lower. It is a 2012 motor, I was told it was one ofthe better years. I have no prob turning a 28 or 30 to the rev. Limiter though
What is gear ratio of gearcase and rev limiter of etec?
closest place to cut mid from Tennessee that I know is Calhoun marine in South Carolina, Michael Chapman haven’t seen on here in a while but he does great work u can see some of his work in the archives on this siteQuote:
Originally Posted by Will hedrick
I have no prob turning a 28 or 30 to the rev. Limiter though[/QUOTE]
That will be the rub with your combo for big top end numbers....the better you get your setup , the more this comes into play...in the old days you just stuck some packs with no rev limiters on there and twisted it on up...the HO i think has a 6250 limiter...the L2 gearcase ,if its still on there ,has a 1.71 :1 ratio....if its been replaced with an M2 ,that has a 1.85:1 ratio ...the magnums big barrel and ratio slowed things down considerably....the L2 still couldn't be run as high as needed on that boat, with out low water pickups...
However we rigged a few with this combo for customers and if they didn't care about that top end speed number to brag about ,they really liked it...just prop it where it gets up and rolls easily and have fun....
1.85 gears. Max rpm is 6000 per the brochure, so at 6400 he is getting is probably on the limiter.
Were it mine, I'd try engine height and props, maybe change setback, before spending the money on a short shaft conversion. I just got a short mid 200XS for my SS2000 and have <10 hours on it. So far the mid looks cool, but doesn't seem to transform the boat.
The gearcase can handle the rev limiter rpm. But can it be raised high enough to optimize performance and maintain water pressure/not blow out? That's the question that led to my purchase of a 200XS.
A sportmaster conversion could solve the engine height worry. But it might be more cost effective to just go black.
1.75 or 1.62 would make propping easier for sure
I would have guessed that the 250 HO would be 100+ mph on the XB2002, but the more I think about it - Weight may be a big part of the problem. It certainly has the horsepower. The pad that should carry 100% of the weight at speed is very small/narrow on these (here is my pad again). I theorize that with 3 batteries, heavy outboard, heavy trolling motor 20 feet away (80 lbs of trolling motor = 1,600 lbs 20 feet away) are just more than the 02's pad wants to carry. These are small boats that have broken dozens of speed records for 30 years now. I blame weight as the biggest obstetrical to those speeds.
I know this for absolute certain - mine is extremely weight sensitive. Years ago, I made runs my favorite lake with 1 battery, no fishing gear, all passenger seats removed, 1 starting battery only, and no trolling motor. Wow! The first thing I felt was a dramatic increase in bow lift and a huge increase in reaction to trim. We loaded the boat on the trailer and raised the jackplate multiple times to a final propshaft height of 1.5" above the pad. The engine pegged the limiter (6,750) quickly and the boat ran the fastest I've ever had it before/since. The efficiency of the prop skyrocketed and the 30 Chopper was pushing the boat forward with every rotation. I never tried a higher pitched wheel. If my little ProMax SS was turning my 30" chopper to the limiter with ease to 96.2 gps, I know there is more, but I'll never see it. I haven't run the Chopper in 15 years and have no reason to. The days of running like that are gone for me. Last time I looked, there were not any Zodiac's with rescue divers and scuba gear anywhere to be seen - not like the drags in OBDA. Will, be careful taking our comments and advice........water doesn't give you much room for error. At 83 mph, if I remember correctly is more than 100 feet per second and generates almost 120 psi on every square inch of your body. It's like concrete! Gordon
Attachment 421412
I woke up this morning and did the math......83 mph is 121 feet per second (5280x83/60/60) and 100 mph is 146 feet per second. Hit a submerged bouy, a 6" log, break a skeg or throw a blade and things get ugly in less than a second. Scream & Fly, just be safe and pick your water carefully.
Thank you all for such valuable info. I will work on my setup, at some point this year I will strip the 02 down and try to make some fps passes AnD see where I'm atQuote:
Originally Posted by Gordon02
I know weight plays a big factor with balance. When I get the spread sheet I'll post it. Would love to plug it up to a computer and see the specs on it but i don't know anyone with a program