Here is a bad picture of a boat a friend is trying to get some/any information on. Any of you folks recognize it? Looks like it has two old OB's on the back but not sure of the vintage.
Thanks in advance.
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Here is a bad picture of a boat a friend is trying to get some/any information on. Any of you folks recognize it? Looks like it has two old OB's on the back but not sure of the vintage.
Thanks in advance.
At first I thought that the boat was Marina Seven II, but as I look closer, it actually looks like the race number is eleven and "11" is also on the side of the hull.
No helmets, basic Coast Guard life vests and a couple of Johnson V4s on the back. That must be a very old picture.
Agree. I wonder if there is any way to get a rough idea on the age based on the style of the life vests. Too bad you can't make out the insignia on the flag. That would be a clue as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2us70
ask Brownie,,It looks like something Jerry Langer or Howard Weiler would have run
From the Fiberglassic Site, Squall King
In 1961, Howard Weiler and Jim Thornton placed fourth overall and first among outboards in the Miami-Nassau power boat race. Especially calm conditions enabled the previous record for an outboard boat to be broken by more than 10 hours. He drove a 19' Squall King specially designed with Mike Navalany, productioon manager for Squall King Boats. Power was two 75-HP Johnson outboard motors (May 29, 1961 Washington Reporter). Howard Weiler was president of Fibre Glass Evercoat Corp. of Florida which he started in September 1956, supplying fiberglass supplies to boat manufacturers including Squall King, Thunderbird, Scottie Craft, and American Marc (August 22, 1960, The Miami News).
Not saying this is the boat though, but it typical of what Jerry and Howard ran back then. The Nassau boat was named Wildcat, (from Searace)
Interesting, but the boat that Jerry Langer and Davey Wilson custom rigged with the (3) OMC Outboards in Miami has a fair amount of documentation still surviving. That boat, which I believe is a 19 foot V, was raced in 1964 and 1965 with a lot of success. Thanks though, the boat in the photo is not the Langer/Wilson hull. I don't know anything about the Howard guy you mention.
Ask Brownie..
The Donzi Brand didn't emerge until 1964.... so those are probably 90 horse Johnrudes on the back.....
Brownie's answer..
"Dunno. Fred Darwick and I worked on this. Nothing. Might be my old “Donzi Daddy”, the first Hornet, rerigged."
It does appear to be a Donzi, going by the name on the back, and the motors look like 1966 100's.<o:p></o:p>
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2us70
Standard gear, Jim---Miami to Nassau---1965
http://i62.tinypic.com/2hx2adv.jpg
Interesting feedback all around. Thanks.
It looks like the "Marina Seven" race boat, based on the life vests and the V4 motors on the back, might be circa 1964 or 1965. It is hard to tell in the photo but the twin Johnson V4's do not look to have a gold stripe on top of the cowls. I thought that the 1964 "Golden Meteor" 90hp motors did have that stripe when they were introduced new to the public that year.
Howard Weiler: Finished the '500' in this 27' Magnum---1970Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G
http://i59.tinypic.com/52fmgi.jpg
Hi Gene - The name on that one sounds like a play on the old Tareyton cigarette logo: "I'd rather fight than switch."Quote:
Originally Posted by GENE LANHAM
In never knew that anyone took on the task of running one of each. Thanks for posting. :thumbsup:
The only people running Johnrudes back then in the Ocean Races, that i can recall, were Howard and Jerry, and they were pals. And yes, Howard was quite a character..I met him around 1958..
The picture is bad, but to me they look like 100's. But if Gene, Freddie and Brownie don't know the boat, it must not be from around here. I was at war from 64-68 so I have no pictures.
Gene, that looks like one of my old CIA boats..
Butch---someday we will have to share some of our 'Bay of Pigs' stories---(what is the statute of limitations???)Quote:
Originally Posted by lilabner
OK...the statute of limitations has long run out. Time to spill the beans. Inquiring minds want to know...:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by GENE LANHAM
It didn't run out for me. I had a phone call one evening about 5 years ago by the last living current agent I worked with asking me to not mention certain names and places. I respect his request.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob V
If you want the real story about the events leading up to and including the invasion, and the aftermath, read the book "Decision for Disaster" by Grayston Lynch, and dedicated to W. A. "Rip" Robertson. These are two of the finest men and Patriots I have ever known. They trained Brigade 2506, and were the first two men ashore, Gray firing the first shot and killing the first Cuban, after being ordered not to go ashore.
If you ever read the first Tom Clancy novels, I can only compare Rip with the character John Clark/Kelly. Rip was a Marine Officer, joined Dec8, 1941 from OCS, severely wounded on Saipan, came back to the states to heal and went back. He also severed in Korea. His story is something movies are made about. Gray was an Army Ranger Officer who climbed the cliffs at Normandy, also served in Korea.
But wait, Gene, is this thread still about WINGS? Funny how most of our friends ended up running weed and we ended up working on gun boats..
Lets have a few toddys at Tavares..
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilabner
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G
I wasn't born back then but man you guys can pick stuff up! it's tough to tell from the photograph what exact year the Johnson motors are. Can't really tell if there are markings on them.
.
Could the motors on the "Marina Seven" race boat possibly be the 75hp models as well from the same year, '64, '65, '66 ?
Could be any of those years. Pictures are hard to come by. Did your friend buy the boat or does he just have a picture? There were very few OMC racers that would venture a rig like that back in the day. Most of them broke down. Langer and Weiler were the most successful in Florida.
The Weilers, Howard and his children Debbie and I think the son was named Tim raced around South Florida for several years. They would often show up with something different usually at a special event race. The "Fight and Switch" offshore boat was just one example. Because of his business everyone in the marine industry knew Howard.
Just like Jerry Langer and Davey Wilson, there is a fair amount of data left out there on Howard Weiler and his incredible OB adventures. I'm sure if he had some type of active involvement in the "Marina Seven" race boat it would have surfaced by now, but nothing at all has.
We only have the one photo, but it is not Howard's boat and it is not one of Jerry's boats. Howard W seems to have run a North American Model S-22 "Wild Cat" (manufactured in Miami) most of the time with twin 1964 90s and Jerry and Davey started with a 19 foot Hornet with triple Johnson 90s and then Jerry switched over to a the 20 foot "Deaco Craft" with twin 100hp Evinrudes by February, 1966 (I believe) that he would run with both Davey and Barry Cordingley.
Florida is a big place so maybe something will pop up if it was a '64 or '65
My friend Pat Eves, who was with OMC for about 30 years says they look like 90 or 100 Johnsons. He thinks the boat may be from the NY area. The boat looks like a Hornet to me and Brownie.
I worked on Hornets at Holman Moody in the late 60's, most of them had 427 Fords with a vee drive and Velvet drive transmission. This boat looks to have a couple feet chopped off the back with the cockpit in the original place.
Thanks for the feedback. Yep, agree the motors are Johnson V4s. The 100hp Johnson was not introduced until 1966 so I don't think that they are 100hp models. I'd say earlier. I think that the 90hp model was introduced in 1964. I'm thinking that the boat is a 1964 or a 1965 but who in New York metro would have had a race boat like that in '64/'65 ? All the outboard race action would have been either out West in Havasu or down in the greater Florida area I would think.Quote:
Originally Posted by lilabner
I got a hold of Sam James yesterday (ex-Bertram) and he gave me a suggestion of who might have some clues about "Marina Seven".
[QUOTE= I'm thinking that the boat is a 1964 or a 1965 but who in New York metro would have had a race boat like that in '64/'65 ?
Don't let T2X see this post..
I was under the impression that he was a 100% Mercury man. Perhaps I'm wrong.
By enlarging the photo on my computer I can read "DONZI" just above the last "1" of the number.
I was on Long Island in those years and there was quite a bit of Offshore racing activity centered on the Around Long Island Marathon. K&K Outboard, Al Grover, Woodcleft Marine, American Finn, Port Washington Marine, Eltro Boats and a few others were, to varying degrees, invested in both OPC and Offshore racing, and I was as well. That being said, I do not remember anything called Marina Seven. That doesn't mean there wasn't something in the NY/NJ/CT/New England area with that name, but I never heard of it. Could we be way off base and be looking at a California or Bermuda boat?...Perhaps even a Midwest team , as there was a race from Chicago to New Buffalo, IN on Lake Michigan back then....Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G
[QUOTE=lilabner;2792380][QUOTE= I'm thinking that the boat is a 1964 or a 1965 but who in New York metro would have had a race boat like that in '64/'65 ?
Don't let T2X see this post..[/QUOTE]
We had our share :D
Your right Butch. All the Donzi's were inboards then, with a "very" few exceptions of sterndrive(s). An inboard boat needed to be modified for outboards, which was basicly frowned upon in those days, as it was thought to have "cheapened" the boat. What you older guys are forgetting, but I know you remember, is that it was discovered by Dick Cole, Richard Bertram, and many others...was that the farthur you sat towards the transom in rough water, the more tolerant the ride. This went for inboards and outboards alike. Hence, the aft helms/cockpits. Remember?;)Quote:
Originally Posted by lilabner
Think he's still around? You can tell us everything now. We won't repeat anything. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by lilabner
Was it not Jerry Langer on the back cover of the 1968 Evinrude catalog with the X-115s?.....X-115, one of the most attractive outboards ever built...IMHO..
Remember Howard Weilers 27 Magnum well. It was during the factory horsepower wars, at the corporate level, and at the publics perception level. What brand you prefered was important & people were glad to tell you why. Howards triple Chrysler/Mercury/Johnson outboards were 125 horsepower each. An in-line four, an inline six...and a V-4. Of course, we all said at the time, that the Merc had to go in the middle because it was the most powerful. ;) (no...seriously, lol))Quote:
Originally Posted by GENE LANHAM
Jerry Langer's Donzi was a factory boat that Don A supplied him. I have no idea if they were pals or not in 1964, as I was still a figment of my parents imagination. It was a 19' Hornet and was delivered very early in 1965. Now, to your specific point of "needing to be modified" I'm pretty confident that Jerry Langer's Hornet had the splash well done at the Donzi factory but there is probably only one guy left on earth that would know that for sure. Langer rigged that 19' Hornet at his Miami Beach dealership for triple Evinrude 90hp wackers with Davey Wilson after hours. Davey was 15 years younger than Jerry. They raced the boat against a lot of bigger inboard boats and beat 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by FUJIMO
The Langer Hornet may offer a clue to help ID the "Marina Seven" race boat pictured below............
Good grab on the letters. If the "Marina Seven" race boat was in fact a Donzi it would sync up to what lilabner and Mr. Brown thought it was as well. If that is true, it would have to be '64 or '65 hull though based on what folks have said about the OB's on the back. Not much reason to put Donzi on the side of a boat that was NOT actually one back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by raymar
Only other persons might know the hull are Bob Warwork at Raveau, and Tom Sheldon in Melrose, Fl. Tom is from Miami and raced there for years.
Thanks. I will try and contact them. A good addition to what Sam James suggested to me. Sam concluded our brief conversation about who I should probe with "if he's still sucking air" !Quote:
Originally Posted by lilabner
Quote:
Originally Posted by GENE LANHAM
Food for thought....Assume that this boat won a major event. Which one of the Big Three would jump to the front of the line to take the credit ???
Thanks T2x, I had no idea you were racing in our area back in 1964/1965, sorry!Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
I agree with you, the "Marina Seven" boat would have been hard for you (and others) not to remember especially running Johnson twins. It is not a West Coast boat for sure. Midwest or Bermuda is possible. Sam James suggested we contact Charlie McCarthy. I sent an email to him through his site a few days ago, but I have not gotten anything back from him. He probably gets this type of request every week and can't be bothered. Mr. James told me on the phone that McCarthy had been given a very large cache of old race boat photos from a noted marine photographer (name escapes me) before the gent passed and he might have something on Marina Seven.