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Hello. There is a possibility of a Catalina Island run. What is the best 21-22ft hull for a single 250hp offshore? I know alot of you East coast guys run the flats. I am talking about 2-3ft waves with no set back.
Is the 21 Skater a good offshore hull? Is the Superboat better? How much better is the 22ft Progression vs the Skater/Superboat? Is the 24 skater and a single better then all of them.
Thank you
I've heard that the Liberators are pretty good in chop.
I can't argue the difference in the different hull designs with the boats mentioned, but a lot of people that frequent 2'-3'ers really like their superboats like the Progressions and Tuff's... I'm sure the Skater would be fine in those waters though...
I've been to Catalina several times in 28 Skaters and have also owned a 21 Trick (same exact hull as a 21 Skater). I can tell you right now that in those 2' - 3' swells, the 21 Skater is NOT going to be a good boat at speed. I was able to run a consistent 80 - 90 mph in 2' - 3' swells to Catalina in my 28 Skater, but you would probably slow that down by 20 mph for a single engine 24, and another 20 mph for a single engine 21. I personally think a 22 Progression (or similar V) would be much better (especially for the skier) for a single engine outboard ski race boat for Catalina. There's a reason you don't see ski racers behind cats - they don't lay down the water for the skier...........Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpenguin
Didn't this use to be the standard for a small boat in the Catalina race http://www.schiada.com/schiadaboats/21rivercruiser.htm ? Not sure how it would be with an outboard.
Our 98 22 Velocity does amazing for its size in rough water.It did lose some of its rough water handling with the 12" set back.It still does great just gets a bit more flighty.I will be going back to 10" shortly.It also depends what your measuring the wave,this varies quite a bit from person to person.Ide imagine a Superboat,Activator,Trick or Progression but id imagine they do better then a 21 cat once it got a bit rougher.
22 Activator (which is 1' longer then the next 2), 21 superboat, or 21 challenger all run better in some chop. All have same 22 degree Deadrise and a 6" pad.
Superboat and challenger only have 21degree deadrise progression has 24 degree and is a much better rough water boatQuote:
Originally Posted by dnelson964
I stand corrected...21 degree for 21superboat and challenger, but 22 degree still for 22' Activator. Glad you could add in first hand about the 22 Progression.Quote:
Originally Posted by goneby
I am a huge fan of the 21 Liberator and similar hulls as a rough water boat, but I think a true 2' to 3' sea is beyond ts comfort zone.
22 progression, 22 Activator, 23 Kryptonite, 24 Progression will all do what you want with the 24 progression being the best of course due to the fact that its 2 ft longer and has a 22,23,24 degree variable deadrise hull like all progressions so it will handle the 2-3s best...... the 22 prgression and 22 activator will be faster than the kryptonite or the 24 progression power for power but all of them will run well with a 250 or 300......
I don't have much to compare it to, but my 21' Liberator jet does very well in chop. I had it on Erie with 2-3' swells and had no issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by hemi2005
I don't think you can go wrong with a Tuff either. Give Mark a call.
http://tuffmarine.com/Boat_Pages/TUFF_21.htm
Progressions will give you the most comfortable ride do to the variable deadrise.
So the 21 skater is a no go for rough offshore?
All real good info and suggestions above!
I was told by Gene @ Howard Custom boats that this was built and used in the Catalina run. Not this one in particular.
23' O/S deep V Howard.
http://i47.tinypic.com/igcj0g.jpg
The best/softest ride will be a boat with a true V bottom vs a pad bottom. Also, the higher the deadrise the better the boat will "cleve" the water. Most offshore boats run a 24 degree deadrise...but that usually begins in the 24'-26' range (Pantera, Active Thunder, etc.) and have much higher freeboard than the smaller 21'-22' boats. That being said, The Progression 22, The Superboat/Shadow/Challenger 21, The Checkmate Pulsare 2100, Velocity 22, Apache 22, etc. would be good choices if you're looking to stay 21/22'. They're all V bottoms with various widths of pads that are capable of running in 2-3' swells. In 2-3' chop you will get beat up in any boat that is 21-22' in length.
If you look at the bottom of the Mod VP style hulls there is a large percentage that is just a Flat Bottom. Its gotta be a V if you really want to cut the waves.
That one sentence about sums it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITER PULSARE
Is the 24ft Skater or 24ft Superboat that much better in rough water that it is worth the loss in speed?
The 21 Skater will eat up any of these V-bottoms in the ruff, I own both a 21 Skater and a 21 Intimidator and have been in all types of other 21/22s and by far my Skater eats them up in the ruff. Cross wind in a V in the ruff is tuff to drive, the Skater you just point and shoot, so much easier.
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...ter-300-Promax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimmed Out15
That's funny ! but true !
You guys must not be talking about very rough water that your 21s eat up, because the water in the pics I've posted would eat a 21 alive! The 21 Skaters are great boats in what I would call "mild" rough waters - 2' - 3'. Anything after that, you'd better be finding shelter. As the earlier post said, ANY 21' - 22' boat is going to get tossed around in truly rough water. Even the 24 Skaters have a tough time when it gets rough. There's a reason they were banned from offshore racing in the early 90s, and that's why Pete built the 28.
Those are all good suggestions, small Tunnels are not the best for the sloppy chop. Don't laugh but a 21' Paramount is a great rough water boat, very strong, and it has a very trick bottom that has a great entry V that tapers back to a small pad. Most people really never take a good look at the design of the bottom. The boat will run through water so rough that you'll have trouble standing up. They don't build them anymore but there are plenty still around.
:iagree: IMPO, any 21,22,23 will get you beat up pretty good in real 2 to 3'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Still Crazy
Dale, :iagree: I have owned 2- 21' Skaters and real 2 to 3's will give you a beating especially if you do not run very hard and on top! Even my 24 was a hand full at times on the weekend and on windy days :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayzor
IMPO, no 21,22,23 would be my boat of choice to run in REAL 2 to 3's:eek::nonod: Even if you survive not sure the boat will if you run them on a regular bases. JMPO!
Maybe I'm getting old :eek:;):D
How about a project? Find yourself a Vaughn 22, they have a 24 degree deadrise and tons of bow flair. Were designed for Catalina.
I have a 21ft Obsession same hull as the Eliminator and Liberator. It likes rough water on a small lake. Swallows that up like nothing. Now you talk about Lake Michigan, that's where the boat sucks. I had it out on Lake Michigan a few weekends ago wind picked up I had to battle 4-5 ft waves and **** man I felt like an offshore racer. That sucked and currently am planning on getting a 28 Skater. On small lakes yeah 1 1/2-2 1/2ft chop swallows that up. But either way when its rough out you have to keep her on the gas if you stop you are screwed being so low profile water comes in on the sides. Also you have to be careful with water coming up on the sides because the gas caps are only like 3-6 inches off the water last year I had water get into my tanks. So rough water like lake Michigan I'd say no. Rough water like Shawano Lake I'd say yes.
Goneby has a 22 Progression in the 20ft and over thats a great deal.Hes only asking 45,000 for it.
You guys are right, my 21 is good to a 2 1/2 - 3 footer at best after that your in for a beating especially in the back seat of a 21 , I rode in the back of my buddies in some rough and I told him I felt like an empty beer can circling around in the back of a pickup ! but I just got rid of a warhawk that gave me spinal injuries !
Agreed you can't take any 21/22 in real ruff but the question was which 21/22 is best
Im sticken with the skater !
I agree he is asking which 21,22 would be best in the rough. But he is also including/asking about running Catalina Island waters that is why we are saying NO 21,22,23 will have a comfortable/safe ride in those waters. Once again JMPO!
Thanks for all the help. I know 21-22ft is small but I must pick something for crossing open water.
22 Progression
21 Superboat
21 Skater
Which would be best for offshore running hard with no set back in 2 to 3 ft waves with a rare 4ft thrown in. No lake chop but real waves offshore.
None of them JMO Your asking to much of these hulls. Ive been in the ocean in my challenger and superboat and believe me I think there is a lot of hype to what this hull is truly capable of and of course there is the difference in what everyone says 1-3' chop is. The ocean is no joke. I love my superboat but there have been plenty times just in the bay I wish I was in a 24 with some big trim tabs:D
Thank you. I hear all of these stories from the 1980s of racing SOB in the ocean, are they blown out of proportion?
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/videos/thumbn...%3d6bdIfQvZ5HYChallenger 21
The original 21's ran more stable in the rough water with twin 2.4 merc. I recall.
No one says they had it easy or overly enjoyed running in the roughest 3+ waves. I have done it off Montauk point to block and Martha's vineyard years back. It all depends if the waves are rollers or hitting you from all sides.
I ran over and back to Ct. from Orient point last summer with about 5 or 6 21'-22' boats last summer to the Romp and it wasn't that bad of me in the 22 Activator but I am thinking we had no more then 2' ers that day. Maybe Superbender, tres, Hydropimp911 or gm250 might give their input of that days fun run.
PS. Will love to do it the same way this year !! Much more fun then trailering all around !
Im not saying that exactly but there is a diff running in the north atlantic up here and the waters off the southern states. Plus some boats were constructed with that type of water in mind. Not the light weights they have become looking for the 100mph mark. Now I know people will disagree but thats my opinion. I have been out in the ocean of Pt Pleasant and just wondered how 21 challenger, shadows and superboats ran in this. This is a pic of me that day just trying to get back in the inlet from the ocean.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpenguin
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i.../106zdhk-1.jpg
Well that is some pretty calm water:D Wish the Barnegat Bay was that calm.Quote:
Originally Posted by dnelson964
Think it really depends on the conditions that they are racing in.
Take a look at this Catalina Island Ski race in '83, there are a number of 21-23' boats towing (look at 7:30 for example) Mostly inboards at that time, mainly for the power advantage IIRC
http://youtu.be/MfY76jy3rfc
And this one 8 years later - go to the 10 minute mark and take a look.. If you just want to see crazy though, start at 9 minutes in to watch the start - 100+ boats racing out for the opening in the breakwater, towing skiers.. skiers side by side with boats..
http://youtu.be/7fg2OZ5stAs