GM and Ford

I been reading there in a money crunch but havent seen any effort to resolve there problems .Wounder what the top Ceo and Exc are Still getting for saleries and the production cost are way over board compared to the Forign Us built cars.Do they realize nobody can afford price of NEW cars these days and they still keep flooding the market.I really wounder if the people running the show know what there doing ,and do they care about the survival of this company or filling there pockets with money before it goes under ,seems like they are same people that were running the failed lending companies.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:MY son works for GM hope they pull their head from their keester before they have to shut down dealerships ....:(

Jay

hahahahaha this thread should get interesting. I can't wait to read the foreign vs domestic argument, can't wait to read that the automotive industry doesn't affect you because you dont live in michigan, gm and ford quality sucks, their overpaid lol

this one should be fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY

hahahahaha this thread should get interesting. I can't wait to read the foreign vs domestic argument, can't wait to read that the automotive industry doesn't affect you because you dont live in michigan, gm and ford quality sucks, their overpaid lol

this one should be fun.

---

O and dont mention the dreaded U word (Union) opps did I say that :rolleyes:

GM is scheduled to run out of money by the end of the year. Ford wants another 50 billion loan from Uncle Sam. The public groans.
Exxon has record profits off a 10.8% margin.The public is outraged.

Americans sure are a contradictory bunch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RED ALERT

GM is scheduled to run out of money by the end of the year. Ford wants another 50 billion loan from Uncle Sam. The public groans.
Exxon has record profits off a 10.8% margin.The public is outraged.

Americans sure are a contradictory bunch.

---

I Do my part and drive American Trucks when I was young going to Detroit and see the factories was the real deal!!!!! Mr Henry Ford was an example of the American dream Really doing something. Now we have Wall Street Nazi Pelosi and the commodity traders!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY

hahahahaha this thread should get interesting. I can't wait to read the foreign vs domestic argument, can't wait to read that the automotive industry doesn't affect you because you dont live in michigan, gm and ford quality sucks, their overpaid lol

this one should be fun.

---

:iagree:

I don't believe they should use my tax money to bail out companies that have $40+ dollar an hour floorsweepers and a "30 year and your out" full pension plan that adds an extra $1200.00 to every vehicle they sell.

My whole fleet is Ford but I have held off buying any replacement vehicles partially due to Ford's advertising in Gay magazines.

They [Ford] just recently, along with McDonalds decided that joining the "Culture War" has cost them a lot of money from conservatives. Both have assured Conservative groups that they have learned their lesson.

McDonalds went so far as to fire the board member who had them contribute to some of the SF militant Gay groups.

My company is non union and I am going to stick with non-UAW products from now on since buying their vehicles is like "The Pig giving a gift card to the Butcher".

When the union auto mfgs get their prices and quality under control and quit supporting radical policies like the Union card check act, I might go back to supporting their companies.

Sorry if this affects your families, but it can affect our families also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JR IN JAX

I don't believe they should use my tax money to bail out companies that have $40+ dollar an hour floorsweepers and a "30 year and your out" full pension plan that adds an extra $1200.00 to every vehicle they sell.

My whole fleet is Ford but I have held off buying any replacement vehicles partially due to Ford's advertising in Gay magazines.

They [Ford] just recently, along with McDonalds decided that joining the "Culture War" has cost them a lot of money from conservatives. Both have assured Conservative groups that they have learned their lesson.

McDonalds went so far as to fire the board member who had them contribute to some of the SF militant Gay groups.

My company is non union and I am going to stick with non-UAW products from now on since buying their vehicles is like "The Pig giving a gift card to the Butcher".

When the union auto mfgs get their prices and quality under control and quit supporting radical policies like the Union card check act, I might go back to supporting their companies.

Sorry if this affects your families, but it can affect our families also.

---

you're uneducated on this subject

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JR IN JAX

I don't believe they should use my tax money to bail out companies that have $40+ dollar an hour floorsweepers and a "30 year and your out" full pension plan that adds an extra $1200.00 to every vehicle they sell.

My whole fleet is Ford but I have held off buying any replacement vehicles partially due to Ford's advertising in Gay magazines.

They [Ford] just recently, along with McDonalds decided that joining the "Culture War" has cost them a lot of money from conservatives. Both have assured Conservative groups that they have learned their lesson.

McDonalds went so far as to fire the board member who had them contribute to some of the SF militant Gay groups.

My company is non union and I am going to stick with non-UAW products from now on since buying their vehicles is like "The Pig giving a gift card to the Butcher".

When the union auto mfgs get their prices and quality under control and quit supporting radical policies like the Union card check act, I might go back to supporting their companies.

Sorry if this affects your families, but it can affect our families also.

---

I completely understand the way you feel about the union situation but I thought you were joking when you said you will not buy a Ford because they advertise in gay media.... That is hilarious!!!!!

What does someones sexual orientation have to do with your family, you can put homosexual's all around me and my family because i am confident that i can raise my child and believe in her to make her own decisions...

The other thing is throughout my life i have known and even been friends with gay people and i can not remember if i ever knew of an individual that was gay and poor... Most were well adjusted succesfull business people which means they had MONEY to buy cars and other things so i do not blame Ford for trying to sell to them because last time i checked there money spends the same as all of your conservative money!

Shaun

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaun Torrente

last time i checked there money spends the same as all of your conservative money!

Shaun

---

why does not liking gays automatically make him conservative? :rolleyes: give me a f'n break.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1BadAction

why does not liking gays automatically make him conservative? :rolleyes: give me a f'n break.

---

He implied in his post he was conservative

"They [Ford] just recently, along with McDonalds decided that joining the "Culture War" has cost them a lot of money from conservatives. Both have assured Conservative groups that they have learned their lesson."

:cool:

NO Give me a F'N BREAK
Shaun

My bad...

On a related note, its amusing to me that california is arguably the most liberal state in the union, and just banned gay marriage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1BadAction

My bad...

On a related note, its amusing to me that california is arguably the most liberal state in the union, and just banned gay marriage.

---

I think that there is a distinction between the 2... Marriage to me has to do with a church and set of religous beliefs, it is my opinion that they should have the same rights under law (taxes, visitation in a hospital etc..) but not necessarily be "married"... On a personal note i think that they should have to be as miserbal as the rest of us married people:D


My overall point is that i try not to get caught up in the bs of life... what i mean by that is why should i care if there is an ad for a ford in a magazine that i will never read, there are to many other things that should effect my decision on what car to buy


Only on S&F can a post about cars turn into a moral argument!!!:thumbsup:
Shaun

I agree. I don't care what they do, but when they start rubbing it in the faces of regular people is where it pisses me off. I don't push my agenda on other people, and I don't want people pushing theirs on me... It's a shame that the Neo-cons have hijacked the right, they cast a bad shadow on all of us.

The UAW is still living in the 1960's.

Gone are the days of guaranteed lifetime employment. Gone are the days when semi-skilled workers out of high school can earn $60K doing repetitive production work. In every industry.

Gone are the days when foreign manufacturers are uncompetitive. In every industry.

The big 3 automakers are in financial trouble not only from the wages, but also by the medical bills of its own workers and retirees. According to reports, GM is the largest private buyer of health care in the world. Most companies pay an insurance company to assume the financial risk for health care claims. GM, on the other hand, is self-insured, meaning the cost comes straight out of the auto giant's pocket. CEO Rick Wagoner projected his company's spending would surpass $7 billion by 2009 and keep rising after that. Health care costs are crippling not just GM, but also businesses across the United States. If companies keep paying more and more for health care it robs their ability to invest in future products and the future of their workers.

For example, the price tag of every vehicle GM builds in the United States includes about $1,525 just for the medical care of the nearly 1.1 million Americans the automaker insures. Toyota's health care tab for each vehicle it builds in Japan is $97; it's $400 to $425 in the United States.

DaimlerChrysler's health care cost amounts to $1,400 per vehicle; Ford, $1,100.


Wage Rate of GM/Ford/DaimlerChrysler
UAW Represented Assembly Workers as of March 5, 2007

GM Assembler Hourly Rate $26.09
COLA 1.77
$27.86

FORD Assembler Hourly Rate $26.10
COLA 1.83
$27.93

DAIMLERCHRYSLER Hourly Rate $26.86
Assembler COLA 1.89
$28.75

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY

hahahahaha this thread should get interesting. I can't wait to read the foreign vs domestic argument, can't wait to read that the automotive industry doesn't affect you because you dont live in michigan, gm and ford quality sucks, their overpaid lol

this one should be fun.

---

You forgot the UNIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek::cheers::reddevil:

I'm sure the help !!!!:icon_bs:

"For example, the price tag of every vehicle GM builds in the United States includes about $1,525 just for the medical care of the nearly 1.1 million Americans the automaker insures. Toyota's health care tab for each vehicle it builds in Japan is $97; it's $400 to $425 in the United States.

DaimlerChrysler's health care cost amounts to $1,400 per vehicle; Ford, $1,100."

Bingo!!!!! The other companies stress shared health care costs while for years the big 3 gave the platinum plan which had no accountability!
When you have to pay your fair share you tend not to sbuse the plan and you try to keep yourself in better health!

Wage Rate of GM/Ford/DaimlerChrysler
UAW Represented Assembly Workers as of March 5, 2007

GM Assembler Hourly Rate $26.09
COLA 1.77
$27.86

FORD Assembler Hourly Rate $26.10
COLA 1.83
$27.93

DAIMLERCHRYSLER Hourly Rate $26.86
Assembler COLA 1.89
$28.75

I wounder how much of the insurance the employe pays each week

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shaun Torrente

I thought you were joking when you said you will not buy a Ford because they advertise in gay media

---

Some people have strong convictions in what they believe in as far morals. :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1BadAction

I don't care what they do, but when they start rubbing it in the faces of regular people is where it pisses me off.

---

Yep, like the gay pride parades. :icon_bs:
You ever heard of a hetrosexual pride parade? :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airboater

I wounder how much of the insurance the employe pays each week

---

Is zero a percentage? :confused:

It is impossible to make cars "affordable again"

The "affordable" car was a myth of the easy credit era; we will now return to the normal era where only the rich can afford new cars.

Just like airlines with too many planes and too many flights, cars are being over produced for the true market than can afford them. It has nothing to do with unions or where the cars are made or designed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve 1

Mr Henry Ford was an example of the American dream Really doing something. Now we have Wall Street Nazi Pelosi and the commodity traders!

---

Talking about nazis, Henry Ford's anti-semitism and nazi sympathies are well-known, and neither GM nor Ford played an exemplary role during World War II.

Here is a long article from the Washington Post that is well worth reading:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...nazicars30.htm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Markus

Talking about nazis, Henry Ford's anti-semitism and nazi sympathies are well-known, and neither GM nor Ford played an exemplary role during World War II.

Here is a long article from the Washington Post that is well worth reading:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...nazicars30.htm

---

I know and I was referring to the Man the moving assembly line his paying above the wage of the day (made customers out of employees) and putting the world on wheels the man took his company back to the ground Steel making and Glass LOF If you were a supplier the crates had to be a certain size and when knocked down made the floor boards for the Model "T" I am not touching Politics here for a while!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve 1

his paying above the wage of the day (made customers out of employees)

---

Steve, the rest of your post is correct, but this part is an oft-repeated myth:

Henry Ford payed employees a high wage because he had to in order to avoid incredibly high labor turnover, as the assembly lines of the day were not considered great working environments. It is as simple as that.

I know my brother cried a few years back when the rail road made him pay $15 co-pays, seems they paid zero before. I told him I pay $20-40, mostly $40 and that's just for basic and specialists. We also pay about $800 a year thru payroll deductions! He was and still is paying zero on everything else.
Teachers and other public emplyees were paying zero for years and now have to pay some of the costs. I think in some cases some, cops?, still pay zero???

Projected earnings is another no no in my book ,they project there gonna make 65 million and when they fall short they cry a loss and in reality they still made 30 million in profits .

Note that new UAW workers get a lot less:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/05/t...er-six-months/

Just hours after threatening to strike at one or more GM plants, the UAW and the General have agreed on two-tier wages for certain job types. The move to clarify which jobs were "non-core" at the national level came as local UAWs were threatening to strike because they felt GM was asking for too many lower-paid positions at their plants. The more regimented deal identifies 16,000 positions that will soon be paid $14 per hour, which will save GM up to a half-billion dollars per year. It will take years to fill all of those positions because GM has to entice existing workers to retire before they can be replaced.

The latest estimates are 3 million jobs gone and no auto production if the Detroit 3 fail. They would take so many suppliers down with them, that the transplants wouldn't be able to function either.

If you can bail out banks, why not car companies?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David

no auto production if the Detroit 3 fail. They would take so many suppliers down with them, that the transplants wouldn't be able to function either.

---

No way that this would ever happen. The worst that would happen is reduction to something like 40% capacity ... and owned by some foreign company ... VW maybe.

Yes, this would still be catastrophic unemployment, but it would not be the end

The OEMs are bailing out tier 1s, and the tier 1s are bailing out tier 2s. Everyone is also getting their tools out of bankrupt suppliers. Bring on the big government bail out for the top of the food chain.

with all the flooded market with cars GM could stand to lay off the over paid workers for 6 months and rehire after at a reasonable salery .

If the big three failed it would be catostrophic to the US economy. It is in everyone's best interest to determine a way to help the auto companies with their cash flow issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airboater

with all the flooded market with cars GM could stand to lay off the over paid workers for 6 months and rehire after at a reasonable salery .

---

You can't be serious.

Let them be bought out by someone with cash, not bailed out by people who don't have cash :eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Markus

Talking about nazis, Henry Ford's anti-semitism and nazi sympathies are well-known, and neither GM nor Ford played an exemplary role during World War II.

Here is a long article from the Washington Post that is well worth reading:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...nazicars30.htm

---

Guess you weren't aware Ford engines powered American Tanks.
Ford 1100 cu. in. All Aluminum, 32 valve, Dual Overhead Cam engine, built all the way back in the 40's.

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I guess we comners aren' allowed to fil in the void , can i axe you , what are you going to do in the next 4 next yrs., sadly ware did it go , since it seems to be common knowlegE= VW aint nothing , most don't know
when TIT'[s were compared to grape fruit , not eggs. That sounds sick to me, and i'm sick , myself guess what , at 67 my backs up The UAW is still living in the 1960's.
Curios to know why , we don't have productivity"? Has nothing to do with the Un candidate , called unproductivity, sad state when we aren't allowed to produce as much as we purchase at WALL-MART
RichardKCMo

Gone are the days of guaranteed lifetime employment. Gone are the days when semi-skilled workers out of high school can earn $60K doing repetitive production work. In every industry.

Gone are the days when foreign manufacturers are uncompetitive. In every industry.

The big 3 automakers are in financial trouble not only from the wages, but also by the medical bills of its own workers and retirees. According to reports, GM is the largest private buyer of health care in the world. Most companies pay an insurance company to assume the financial risk for health care claims. GM, on the other hand, is self-insured, meaning the cost comes straight out of the auto giant's pocket. CEO Rick Wagoner projected his company's spending would surpass $7 billion by 2009 and keep rising after that. Health care costs are crippling not just GM, but also businesses across the United States. If companies keep paying more and more for health care it robs their ability to invest in future products and the future of their workers.

For example, the price tag of every vehicle GM builds in the United States includes about $1,525 just for the medical care of the nearly 1.1 million Americans the automaker insures. Toyota's health care tab for each vehicle it builds in Japan is $97; it's $400 to $425 in the United States.

DaimlerChrysler's health care cost amounts to $1,400 per vehicle; Ford, $1,100.


Wage Rate of GM/Ford/DaimlerChrysler
UAW Represented Assembly Workers as of March 5, 2007

GM Assembler Hourly Rate $26.09
COLA 1.77
$27.86

FORD Assembler Hourly Rate $26.10
COLA 1.83
$27.93

DAIMLERCHRYSLER Hourly Rate $26.86
Assembler COLA 1.89
$28.75[/QUOTE]

If i knew of anyone that had some farm ground to rent , i live in the countrty , scare's me that some have , more than others , maybe we should be thingking diff. , sometimes i miss the drift as as Cindy Mac said her and son still own there race team , some times you win , funny thing when he get's back from IRAQUE I think they'll continue , hopefully any how , he's just a man doing his duty as some say they wish they could, and thing's Those 2 girls are are beutiful children that OUR pres Elect. has , that,s our hope , so keep on keeping on.
RichardKCMo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1BadAction

My bad...

On a related note, its amusing to me that california is arguably the most liberal state in the union, and just banned gay marriage.

---

I will have to say ,the only thing that keeps the balance in a country such as that is , it's really not LIBERAL, having lived in the south most area and gotten to know some of the people , Mr. Billbray included i can only say , God Help Us, because what i hear is really sad, and it's a shame that we don't listen.

RichardKCMo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CDave

Guess you weren't aware Ford engines powered American Tanks.

---

Where you aware that GM had to be taken to court in 1942 to stop them from continuing to ship trucks to Germany?

Sam I Am , so Right, Kinda Like back in the day, of OccokA or whatever , my vote for those fellows was thumbs down.

I guess it's hard these days to get a job without an ED. or at least being pointed in the right way,and btw my vote echoded that this time , i said no to my senators and reps and you know what , only 1 that answered was A dem , scary HUH, anyways , life is so we'll hang in , Anyways , sounds like Daren....
RichardKCMo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark75H

Where you aware that GM had to be taken to court in 1942 to stop them from continuing to ship trucks to Germany?

---

WEre you aware that GMC was divested of there int. in GMDisel , Roger PENskie should be so and FRIGader way back when WHO cared ,At That Timethat the brown shirts were appearing , But who knows?? We could've had Roosevelt beyond when we had, some say it wasn't bad!!!

What about New YORK ???
Blombergh, Scary ???
RichardKCMo, I can say that on this site, thanks I was going to say God. but am going to say Goodness, just be safe