More mathematics of electricity

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Originally Posted by David

it seems like BYD can do it, but the chargers are better than what we have in North America

From my own experience with 100 kWh chargers, I can charge 5-10 minutes in the summer and 20 in real cold to gain 100 miles. 100 kWh chargers are puny, but that’s what is on the highway berween here and Toronto.

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Just so you know, high rates of charge, as well as charging to 100% are hard on lithium ion batteries and will shorten their lives (to say nothing of increased fire risk, but you should be insured for that).

Mate of mine, single, no kids or other expenses, is a HUGE Tesla fan. In order to live best with battery cars, he has two rules he lives by:

1) get TWO of them, so you can slow charge one, while you drive the other... Slow charging is easier on the battery and extends it's life
2) get the most expensive, long range battery available, so you only have to charge to no more than 80% and still have enough range... because charging to 100% is hard on the battery and shortens it's life

To live like this, he has TWO Teslas.

-Peter

We NEED many new Nuclear power plants in the USA, everything stopped after the 3 mile Island partial melt-down, the Shoreham NY plant did begin low power testing in 1985 but was totally dismantled because of fear, not science.

6 BILLION dollars down the drain because people became scared, nothing really happen but a little radioactive gas was released at 3 mile Island but It stopped any new plants being built till 2023 in the US, now Energy costs a LOT more, Florida has two Nuclear power plants still in operation.

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Originally Posted by CUDA

We NEED many new Nuclear power plants in the USA, everything stopped after the 3 mile Island partial melt-down, the Shoreham NY plant did begin low power testing in 1985 but was totally dismantled because of fear, not science.

6 BILLION dollars down the drain because people became scared, nothing really happen but a little radioactive gas was released at 3 mile Island but It stopped any new plants being built till 2023 in the US, now Energy costs a LOT more, Florida has two Nuclear power plants still in operation.

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Damn, Cudes. 100% agree with you here. TMI was NOT a testament to how dangerous nuke power is. It was a testament to how safe, nuke power is. The failsafes not only worked a treat, but they exceeded expectations. And TMI was built before the nuclear regulatory commission essentially killed nuclear power in the USA.

Short version of TMI…

-it suffered a meltdown
-in case of a meltdown you had three layers of safety:
1) the reactor vessel itself, eight inches thick of low alloy steel (Why low alloy steel? It's tougher and more resistant to embrittlement from neutron bombardment than high carbon steel.)
2) the primary containment vessel, four feet thick of very special nuclear grade concrete. It was stressed to contain the nuclear reaction by itself. It had a thin steel liner on the inside to make it air tight. It never even got close to being needed, because the meltdown didn’t even make it a quarter of the way through the reactor itself.
3) the secondary containment was the building itself, also several feet thick of concrete

What happened in the meltdown? It didn’t even melt a quarter of the way through the eight inch steel of the reactor vessel itself. Neither the primary nor secondary containment was ever even close to being touched.

***

So Yes Cudes we agree. We need nuke in the worst way possible. Man is never going to be an advanced, spacefaring society without the atom. Period. Full stop.

-Peter

It's true that keeping the charge between 20 and 80% and avoiding fast charging will prolong battery life. And charging from 80-100% is slow. I keep the charge in the 20-80 range, and avoid fast charging just because it's so much more expensive than charging at home. On a trip to Toronto, I will target 25-30% charge when I get home, and don't fast charge more than I need to. The 187 mile round trip to visit my late mother used to need a charge if I wanted to stay in the 20-80 range. When I stopped to charge on the way home, I never charged to 80%. A stop on the return leg of the trip was OK as my bladder and arthritic hip also needed a stop.

Using a 100 KW nominal charger, my best predicted time for 100 miles of range was 8.9 minutes. At -20C (-4F) my longest rate charge time for 100 miles was 61 minutes. We don't see -20C that often. Normal winter time for 100 miles would be 30 minutes. I could reduce this time by pre-conditioning the battery, ie warming up the battery before plugging it in. I don't bother as the procedure in our EV is a nuisance. 5 minutes of monkeying with a touch screen or 5 more minutes on the charger. I should try it some time when it is really cold to see how much time I actually gain. I only charged for 29 minutes on the one really cold day that I recorded data for - just enough to get home with around 30%.

If I used a Tesla 250 KW nominal charger or other more powerful charger, the times should drop. Our car's maximum charge rate is 240 KWh, and with a powerful charger and a 20% starting point, I bet could get 100 miles of range in 5 minutes in the summer. So the claims of BYD seem reasonable based on my experience.

Generally, I am not a believer in getting the biggest battery possible. Bigger batteries add weight and cost and decrease efficiency. GM and their 200 KWh batteries are on the wrong path for everyone who is not towing.

Tesla taxi data suggests that the loss in battery life from frequent fast charging and charging to 100% is not big. But it's easy to stay in the 20-80 range, and cheaper to charge at home, so that's what I do.

BYD sells a lot of electric cars in Europe so they must meet some reasonable set of safety standards. Pretty sure they have been outselling Tesla for the last year or so for whatever that means. They are a more basic and less expensive auto so that just might be what the consumers need.

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Originally Posted by BarryStrawn

BYD sells a lot of electric cars in Europe so they must meet some reasonable set of safety standards. Pretty sure they have been outselling Tesla for the last year or so for whatever that means. They are a more basic and less expensive auto so that just might be what the consumers need.

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True, but a little perspective... BYD is often cited on the BEV fanboi sites as being ground breakers in solid state batteries (didn't Cudes say that they are already operating 750 mile ranges all over China or something like that?), and battery tech in general. So it's worth clarifying that these are NOT solid state battery cars or even some kind of super tightly packed, 350Wh/kg lithium ion, either. They are what you say the are: more basic and less expensive.

***

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CUDA

Energy density
…
Early 1990s: Commercial lithium-ion batteries had an energy density of approximately 100–120 Wh/kg.
Today: State-of-the-art lithium-ion cells can reach 250–300 Wh/kg. Some researchers have even achieved experimental energy densities over 700 Wh/kg.

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So Cudes, I don’t know where you cut and pasted these figures from, but we might as well take this opportunity to straighten out some commonly misused and misunderstood terminology.

The units energy over mass, such as Wh/kg are NOT “energy density”. In physics and engineering, units of energy over mass, such as Wh/kg, are specific energy, not “energy density”. For energy density, think of it like regular density. Regular density like you learn in primary school, (or do Americans learn it in secondary school?), is mass over volume. So energy density properly understood and used, would be something like Wh/cubic meter or cubic centimetre or such.

Armed with the his knowledge, when you read from sources that misuse or misunderstand energy density and confuse it with specific energy, you should approach everything else you learn from that site with a critical eye.

HTH


-Peter

Canada is talking about reducing the 100% tax to EVs that they started following Biden, because China's is second largest buyer of their canola cooking oil, China added a Tax to that oil hurting Canada farmers, so each side is taking hit, If the US didn't put the screws to Canada, these things would never be considered, everything is more complex now, with countries around the world looking into there relationships.

They are also discussing running a pipe line to the west coast to ship oil, to circumvent the USA at all costs, just one more change, in the aftermath of the new TAXs imposed upon them, many country's are doing the same to avoid the new taxes changing economic landscape, long term we will pay.

Peter, I'm going to try and get in contact with my childhood friend, he graduated 3rd in his electrical engineering class from U Buffalo, then achieved his masters, last he told me he was working for Boeing near Seattle WA, I'm sure he's retired by now but if I can find Charlies number he'll spin circles around you, I can't remember the proper spelling of his last name, we went to different schools, private VS public, and his mother remarried with a new last name. You seam to believe not much changed in batteries over the last 30 years, the opposite is true.

https://rmi.org/the-rise-of-batterie...-many-numbers/

Lithium-metal batteries can charge in 12 minutes for an 800 km drive

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CUDA

Peter, I'm going to try and get in contact with my childhood friend, he graduated 3rd in his electrical engineering class from U Buffalo, then achieved his masters, last he told me he was working for Boeing near Seattle WA, I'm sure he's retired by now …

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Sure Cudes, mate. The more the merrier. :) One of the biggest issues in the BEV movement, is ignorance fueled by hype. The more people who know enough to see through the hype and share a little grounding, the more realistic our expectations for battery boating will be.

-Peter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pcrussell50

Sure Cudes, mate. The more the merrier. :) One of the biggest issues in the BEV movement, is ignorance fueled by hype. The more people who know enough to see through the hype and share a little grounding, the more realistic our expectations for battery boating will be.

-Peter

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You are soo Ignorant of all the advances in battery tech, that's what drives me crazy about YOU

SO SO STUPID you are living in the 90's , for GODS sake watch, you are So Ignorant, portraying yourself as the end of knowledge

Your knowledge ended 25 years ago and everything has progressed, but you don't believe it,

I've Always wanted a Ducati, I had a ZERO S with twin batteries and I quickly sold it because of range, around town, fun, fun. fun, get on the high way and the battery was insufficient, it was not set up to use quick charging commercial chargers,

Ducati is class,

https://electrek.co/2025/09/08/quant...-ducati-video/




Breaking the Lithium-Ion Mold
QuantumScape’s mission is to redefine EV performance by replacing liquid electrolytes with a solid ceramic separator. This shift eliminates flammable components, reducing fire risks — a major concern for EV adoption.

The QSE-5 battery cells, showcased at IAA Mobility 2025 in Munich, powered a modified Ducati V21L motorcycle, marking the first real-world demonstration of anode-free solid-state lithium-metal batteries. With an energy density of 844 watt-hours per liter (Wh/l) and the ability to charge from 10% to 80% in just 12 minutes, these batteries could extend EV ranges to 400 to 500 miles and make charging as quick as a gas station stop.

This leap forward tackles range anxiety and long charging times, two barriers stifling EV growth.

Quantumscape Corp
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A Partnership Powering Progress
QuantumScape’s collaboration with PowerCo is a cornerstone of its strategy. Its $ 130 million investment and a non-exclusive license to produce up to 40 gigawatt hours (GWh) of batteries annually (expandable to 80 GWh) signal confidence in QuantumScape’s tech. The partnership leverages Volkswagen’s manufacturing muscle to bridge the gap from prototype to production.


Additionally, a collaboration with Murata Manufacturing supports high-volume production of ceramic separators using QuantumScape’s Cobra process, which is 25 times faster than traditional methods. These alliances are critical as QuantumScape pursues a fab-less model, relying on partners to scale production while it focuses on innovation.

Hurdles on the Road to Revolution
Despite the excitement, QuantumScape faces significant challenges. The company remains pre-revenue, with a second-quarter net loss of $114.7 million and a projected full-year EBITDA loss of $250 million to $270 million, narrower than the $280 million loss projected after Q1.

Scaling production to meet the EV industry’s massive demand is a daunting task. The QSE-5 pilot line in San Jose is a step forward, but commercial viability is at least a year away.

Manufacturing solid-state batteries requires precision to produce thin, uniform ceramic separators without cracks — a process that’s technically complex and costly. While the Ducati demo proves the technology works, translating it to mass-market EVs at an affordable price point remains uncertain.

Key Takeaway
QuantumScape’s solid-state battery technology has the potential to revive the EV market by addressing critical limitations in range, charging speed, and safety. The Ducati demonstration is a proof-of-concept milestone, showing that QuantumScape’s vision is viable.

However, the company must overcome significant hurdles to produce batteries at scale, a process that’s at least a year away. The EV industry, grappling with waning demand and infrastructure gaps, needs more than a single breakthrough to reignite growth.

QuantumScape’s stock soared 21% yesterday, reflecting investor optimism, but the road to widespread EV adoption remains long. Jumping on QuantumScape’s bandwagon now is a risky investment, as the company’s success hinges on execution and market readiness.


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Read more: Investing, electric vehicle demand, electric vehicle sales, electric vehicles, EV batteries, EV battery makers, EV stocks, EV stocks to buy, QS stock, QuantumScape, solid-state batteries





https://news.sap.com/2025/02/jump-st...artup-powerco/

750 miles, with more left...

https://electrek.co/2025/09/09/merce...ove-750-miles/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pcrussell50

True, but a little perspective... BYD is often cited on the BEV fanboi sites as being ground breakers in solid state batteries (didn't Cudes say that they are already operating 750 mile ranges all over China or something like that?), and battery tech in general. So it's worth clarifying that these are NOT solid state battery cars or even some kind of super tightly packed, 350Wh/kg lithium ion, either. They are what you say the are: more basic and less expensive.

***



So Cudes, I don’t know where you cut and pasted these figures from, but we might as well take this opportunity to straighten out some commonly misused and misunderstood terminology.

The units energy over mass, such as Wh/kg are NOT “energy density”. In physics and engineering, units of energy over mass, such as Wh/kg, are specific energy, not “energy density”. For energy density, think of it like regular density. Regular density like you learn in primary school, (or do Americans learn it in secondary school?), is mass over volume. So energy density properly understood and used, would be something like Wh/cubic meter or cubic centimetre or such.

Armed with the his knowledge, when you read from sources that misuse or misunderstand energy density and confuse it with specific energy, you should approach everything else you learn from that site with a critical eye.

HTH


-Peter

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Your post is FULL of LIES, number one I never said what YOU said I did, TRUE MAGA BS

YOU better Inform all the Engineers around the world how stupid they are,

Breaking the Lithium-Ion Mold
QuantumScape’s mission is to redefine EV performance by replacing liquid electrolytes with a solid ceramic separator. This shift eliminates flammable components, reducing fire risks — a major concern for EV adoption.

The QSE-5 battery cells, showcased at IAA Mobility 2025 in Munich, powered a modified Ducati V21L motorcycle, marking the first real-world demonstration of anode-free solid-state lithium-metal batteries. With an energy density of 844 watt-hours per liter (Wh/l) and the ability to charge from 10% to 80% in just 12 minutes,

This leap forward tackles range anxiety and long charging times, two barriers stifling EV growth.

A Partnership Powering Progress
QuantumScape’s collaboration with PowerCo is a cornerstone of its strategy. Its $ 130 million investment and a non-exclusive license to produce up to 40 gigawatt hours (GWh) of batteries annually (expandable to 80 GWh) signal confidence in QuantumScape’s tech. The partnership leverages Volkswagen’s manufacturing muscle to bridge the gap from prototype to production.


Additionally, a collaboration with Murata Manufacturing supports high-volume production of ceramic separators using QuantumScape’s Cobra process, which is 25 times faster than traditional methods. These alliances are critical as QuantumScape pursues a fab-less model, relying on partners to scale production while it focuses on innovation.

Hurdles on the Road to Revolution
Despite the excitement, QuantumScape faces significant challenges. The company remains pre-revenue, with a second-quarter net loss of $114.7 million and a projected full-year EBITDA loss of $250 million to $270 million, narrower than the $280 million loss projected after Q1.

Scaling production to meet the EV industry’s massive demand is a daunting task. The QSE-5 pilot line in San Jose is a step forward, but commercial viability is at least a year away.

Manufacturing solid-state batteries requires precision to produce thin, uniform ceramic separators without cracks — a process that’s technically complex and costly. While the Ducati demo proves the technology works, translating it to mass-market EVs at an affordable price point remains uncertain.

Key Takeaway
QuantumScape’s solid-state battery technology has the potential to revive the EV market by addressing critical limitations in range, charging speed, and safety. The Ducati demonstration is a proof-of-concept milestone, showing that QuantumScape’s vision is viable.

However, the company must overcome significant hurdles to produce batteries at scale, a process that’s at least a year away. The EV industry, grappling with waning demand and infrastructure gaps, needs more than a single breakthrough to reignite growth.

QuantumScape’s stock soared 21% yesterday, reflecting investor optimism, but the road to widespread EV adoption remains long.




So Peter just what Degree did YOU receive, before becoming a bus driver ?


https://youtu.be/FkHCf6sjBgo

Wound up tighter than a cuckoo-cuckoo clock...

Could you charge a battery with hot air? (lots of it!)