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John - can you explain what happens to the airflow when they bunch together like that? Do hydros and tIs lift thru the tunnels increased with airflow on the topside of the hull decks radically altered? Do hydros and tunnels need their own "tube" of air in order to be stable?Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schubert
In all your years of racing, you never had anybody chop you in a turn move over in front of you.? Hose you down on the straightaway moving over on your lane then you weren’t driving with the rearview mirror. Reggie and those years was known for his aggressive driving, and as the sequence of pictures suggests yes, he was crowded, whether on purpose or not only the fellows in that heat know. Did Reggie try to drive through a hole? It wasn’t there you’d have to ask him. That was the national championships, and everybody drove hard! Would anybody intentionally hurt another driver? I think not I agree with you, but I know Reggie wasn’t a happy camper and why was the big story about OMC running a V-6 was it to compete with the other Mercury V sixes that were there. John, please explain the aerodynamics of a tunnel boat as I for one really never understood them and went on my head too many times trying to go faster! I know when the propeller let go of the water. The only thing that held me in my seat, sometimes was my puckering factor. Basically, we all were riding wings on the water with ever increasing horsepower in that period and I’m sure that the Molinari’s and Schultzes and twister crafts and others were aerodynamically designed by engineers not with the computer modeling that’s available today but by old fashion slide rules and principles of airplane wings. But a lot of us amateurs flew by the seat of our pants, my first airplane solo, who is it either 15 or 16 in a J 85 Cub. And no, I’m not as old as the Wright brothers I still didn’t understand how it flew best always Amberjack.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schubert
Lars, you mention Koblenz in 73 I believe. I think it’s German for two rivers, coming together the Rhine and the Mosel and I was there both in 72 and 73 not at the boat races but studying Wine at the German wine institute, which offered two week courses to promote the wines of Germany. Deinhard Schmidt, SOHN and other producers put the course on both Rivers wander pretty country at that point, but they are commercial dirty waterways. The German joke was that every time they flush the toilet, the Dutch got to drink it. just a memory and an aside.
I’m certainly not an engineer, nor were the designers of most hydros & tunnels. Sid Uretzky, better known as just Sid, designer of Sid-Craft & Sid-Son hydros & most our teams tunnels,who was an engineer at Martin Marietta in the 40’s, explained to me a hydro & a tunnel are designed to run with the single boat aero ado e & below the decks. As soon as 2 boats get close enough side by side, the air lift doubles or more then the boat(s) were designed for, and thus the blow overs.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterZebra
Yup many times, but did it more than done to me in hydros. My dad always said, look over at your throttle, if you don’t see a boat, the turn is yours. Not legal to do today. I even got chopped in a tunnel at St Mary’s,OH by Earl Benz when he drove the Geecghe with an OMC. I still believe that Reggie stuck his nose in to a too small space & possibly one of the other drivers altered course, causing the blow overQuote:
Originally Posted by Amberjack1234
Forgot to mention I blew over testing in NJ with our 1:1 gear case buried speedo hard at the stop at 105. Sid came the next day said he couldn’t fix the boat & explained what happened. He said that when I got up to 100 that the only thing holding me on the water was the propeller. Once it left the water, ass our tea kettle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberjack1234
I was standing at the railing a few feet past the start clock when the "Trippel Flip" happened. Most of the boats in the heat had timed the start pretty well so they all got there at the same time. Looking back up the course as they came down for the start you could see the boats starting to shuffle side to side from being packed together. I was thinking "this is not good". The start was into a left quartering head wind and when the pack got into the wind lift generated by the Stadium stands roof that was all it took to blow them over. The first to go was Harry Kerslake in the white Baja. That boat was designed to be run in SJ and had way too much lift to be running in U class. Harry and I also raced in SD class at the time and he told me that they were trying several things to control this. The Baja had two large flaps installed in the front of the tunnel and at the time of the accident he had them at full bow down trim. He told me it didn't help a bit.
I remember the Baja’s and those flaps there were a a couple of them at the nationals that year one thing you’re right about that stadium with the southeast wind generated a real vortex when you came to the East End of it and if you weren’t ready for it in any kind of air entrapment hull it became real interesting. I was once racing against great Marine, designer, Harry Schoell, he was in a real light boat that he had just built with a 427 Chevrolet in it. I remember the boat kited up directly in front of me and Harry was thrown out. Stop my boat to get him out of the water. This was right at the start of the last lap of the race and we were both pushing hard. I had an 18 foot eliminator for the 427 Holman Moody Ford in it and Harry was a couple of notches faster. That was the old IPC funny boat class that we ran in the late 60s early 70s, these were conventional hulls.
[QUOTE=Amberjack1234;3388369]I remember the Baja’s and those flaps there were a a couple of them at the nationals that year one thing you’re right about that stadium with the southeast wind generated a real vortex when you came to the East End of it and if you weren’t ready for it in any kind of air entrapment hull it became real interesting. I was once racing against great Marine, designer, Harry Schoell, he was in a real light boat that he had just built with a 427 Chevrolet in it. I remember the boat kited up directly in front of me and Harry was thrown out. Stop my boat to get him out of the water. This was right at the start of the last lap of the race and we were both pushing hard. I had an 18 foot eliminator for the
Vortices been talking to some of my old pilot buddies. They looked at the picture and told me it’s the same thing that happens to airplanes when they takeoff the wing tips, generate currents and tunnels of air they were saying that these boats running so close together do the same thing so that’s what causes them to takeoff and fly. I’m sure all of you tunnel, boat, drivers and hydroplane drivers have experienced this at sometime or another with the resulting hard landing. The same boat that I was talking about in the previous posts 18 foot eliminator that boat was racing in the stadium after I had sold it to another fellow about three years later, and he was again right in front of the Marine Stadium and all of a sudden he came up out of the seat, running about 80 miles an hour like you’ve been shut off an ejection seat. The boat disappeared underwater after traveling about another 60 or 70 feet like it nosedived, and by the time he came down and hit the water. The boat was completely gone. Turns out the bottom D laminated spit him, and the seat completely out of the boat, the whole underside of the boat on the left-hand side was gone. I wish I had a picture of that.
I became aware of the issue at the Miami Marine Stadium in 1966 when the 9 Hour race was stopped due to the fatal accident of Hank Bowman. I was driving my stint when this accident happened and when I completed the next lap red smoke flares were deployed from the stands. I can still recall seeing the red smoke rotating counter clockwise in front of the stands.
I believe that I raced at the Stadium maybe 10 times. One time I believe New Years Day 1971 I was leading S class then pitted for fuei. Crew decided to use the stadium’s fuel tanks across the parking lot with the hoses going under ground. I was the first to stop. Yup, they weren’t purged & I got the water. Later that year at the marathon nationals I finished second overall to Gene Landham’s twin wing, first S class with Hering & his Merc behind me. The thing I recall most about the stadium after seeing several incidents in front of the stands, when you approached you had to be ready for little air in front of the stands then again be ready as you were approached the end of them for the rapid increase lift. I also remember when you passed the island, you were basically out in the ocean, water conditions got very rough. Loved racing there though.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2us70
#12 Francois Salabert Benson & Hedges Molinari/Johnson F1 V8.
Attachment 518906
My OE class and F1-V8 friend/racing buddy Francois Salabert was racing the F1-V8 very successfully from 1981 to 1989 in Europe and the USA.
Boat #3 below.
1990 Salabert signed up to race the Merc 2 liter V6 series and sadly lost his life in Bristol same year.
https://www.screamandfly.com/attachm...8&d=1514226342
https://www.screamandfly.com/attachm...9&d=1514228716
If you were running out at the buoy line the lift kind of died in front of the stands. However if you were running in closer to the stands lift increased. I never had a problem with this early on running a flat bottom SE boat. I started feeling it when I started running the faster and lighter McCall SE tunnel and v-bottom boats.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schubert