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Newer 850's are the same 89 ci block as a 1000, older 850's were 76 (same as the 800) I think the 76 and 89/93 ci motors are enough different that stacks won't fit. A factory black 850 is definitely an 89.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old fiberglass
I was pretty certain the 1100 was significantly smaller than the 1250
Congratulations on your comeback ! :cheers:
Thanks for the info. If the blocks were the same what was the difference between the 850 and 1000's. Carbs, porting and so forth ?? The one I put up a picture of was originially white, but had a Krylon rebuild at some point in it's life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark75H
Who says those OMC guys didn't have a sense of humor.Quote:
From Powerboat, here is a picture of the twin at Parker and one of his singles in Paris.
During that time, all of the Molinari's had a rectangular metal name plate attached to the cowl support just behind the cockpit of each boat which was inscribed Scafo Angelo Molinari. I guess someone at OMC thought that was a bit much and decided to mimmick the plate. At Miami Marine Stadium, I was walking past a McDonald that Ted was about to put in the water and had to do a double take. They had placed a piece of gray duck tape in that same location and, in magic marker, had written Scafo Wilber McDonald! They enjoyed a big laugh when they saw my reaction to their handywork.
Yep.:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Old fiberglass
When the 1000"s first came out Mercury elimnated the 76 cu in 800 and came out with the 89 cu in. 850 which shared a block with the 1000. I had an 850 on a 13' Powercat in 64' and it was was basically a detuned 1000. The 1000's were painted blacxk while the 850's had the old white color with a black wrap around like the departed 800's. We never got to run the old 800 dockbusters against the 850's since very few 850's actually made it to the race course. The 1100 had the first SS ignition and I thought it had a larger block than the 1000. (at least I believe it a few more Cu.In's) can someone confirm that it was neither an 89.9 block like the 1000 or a larger block like the 1250? In which case it would mean that Merc tooled up a new block for a two year run????...or simply bored out the older 89.9? One of the reasons my memory is vague around this era is that for about two years we were playing with OMC's new 115's and I raced them for a season as the 1250 was coming out...... We quickly jumped back but by then the 1250 "problems" were ironed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark75H
Confirmed it on post 1092 with the stack and 1100 block picture. I believe the 1250 block was vary close to the 1350, 1400 & 1500.Quote:
can someone confirm that it was neither an 89.9 block like the 1000 or a larger block like the 1250?
Notice your last post number was 1100...ironic.
For 1963 & 64, yes, but in 1962 only the 1000 was 89, the '62 850 was still 76 (that is why I was saying early 850 vs late 850)Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
The 1100 was a 2 year run of the bored out 89 and had the largest bore Merc used on an inline 6. I am pretty certain it shares its crank with the 89.
The 1250 and 1350 were also only 2 year runs for their respective blocks (these might also share a crank they have the same stroke), so there is a pattern.
The 99ci 1250 (and all later 99ci 6's) went back to the same bore as the 1000 but used more stroke.
The activity level on racing projects continued to rachet up. When we ran out of weather, we went to Lake X. The big truck that was used to haul complete engines was now assigned to the department. We gutted the inside and installed racks to hold gearcases and short blocks. Cabinets for spare parts were built and a hoist and big tool box were added and off to races it would go. For a while, we invoiced the racers for what they got from the truck, but that policy didn't last long. Of course those that were running "memo billed" equipment were not among those receiving a bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by willabee
Sometime early 1968 is when I think I somehow found out about the conversations taking place with Jimmy and Gary regarding a Racing department. Their thinking was that they wanted to do it, but didn't want to under the existing chain of command. They wanted to bypass Steele and report directly to the boss. Their idea was that one of them would be responsible for NOA and the other APBA. They figured that somehow they could keep putting the decision off on starting this program until Mr. K got involved and then they would tell him what they wanted to do and why. They were convinced that it would ultimately turn out the way they had planned.
The BP's came out and racing was now the only thing a few of us in the Blue Room were involved with. Another truck was purchased and set up strickly for props and prop work. Molinari's were coming over and we were setting up other types of boats to be "memo billed" to different drivers to cover various classes of competition. For the most part, I was having a ball. Imagine the size of the wallet a person would have needed to buy all the different equipment that I was now getting to test.....and being paid to do it. Wasn't paid much, but paid just the same. Man, what a unique opportunity. :D
To be continued.....(sorry Ol' Glass :p)
To conclude the "behind the scenes" story that I set out to tell, I was on my way back home from Havasu 1968 and made a call to the plant. Normally just reported in to the receptionist with our whereabouts and checked to see if anyone needed anything. Garbrecht got on the line and was quite happy to inform me that he had just come from a meeting in Fond du lac with Mr. Kiekhaefer. Mercury was officially forming a Racing Team to be headed by Gary! He was to report to Bill Steele, but I'm sure he didn't plan on that being long term. They had bought some property on the river west of the Blue Room and Gary was to get his team established and begin the process of setting up shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by willabee
He asked me if I wanted to be the Foreman of the Team and I accepted. We transferred some people to this department and began moving in. One of the people not involved with this new department was Jimmy! Now I remember.....it was after we had moved in that I was talking to Jimmy and that's when I found out about the meetings he and Gary had been having in Fondy and what their strategy had been. Obviously Gary had decided on a new strategy and it didn't include sharing the title. :(
Jimmy stayed away from racing for a while. Gary did ask him for some help later with a stacker program and Jimmy agreed, but that arrangement was short lived. Jimmy got involved with Merc's sorry snowmobile effort and was instrumental in turning that machine into a race winner. Time heals wounds and ultimately Jimmy became Manager of Hi Performance Products.....by then, Steele had been moved aside and Gary was in charge of all racing.
Like i said at the very start------ The bugger did not take prisoners ----there were only heavy casualties.
I wanted to come back to this question and try to paint a better picture of the timing of factory involvement. I think using Broadway Joe Habay as an example might get the job done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old fiberglass
Mid 1967 - Chicago/Milwaukee marathon - Joe is driving an twin OMC powered Souter.....a factory boat. Merc has no factory entrys.
Mid 1968 - Joe comes to Oshkosh, the BlueRoom, to test and pick up his "memo billed" new Switzer V with twin 1250 BP's. He was offered this ride to make the switch.
Mid 1969 - Joe, a HVAC business owner in Yipsilanti, Michigan is hired by Merc and moves to LaHabra, California to work at Ron Jones shop. He is to rig and test the new creations by Jones.
It appears that OMC already had their team in 1967, unless it was just for offshore at that time and then brached out as Merc became more involved. Using Parker 9 Hour results, 1968 had very little factory involvement.....a Schnoonover and maybe a Ron Hill, with just one outboard cracking the top ten. Then in 1969, you see that the outboards had six of the top ten places. That's a testimonial to the fact that the factorys were building more and better equipment just for racing, plus the fact that their were a few more factory entrys. By 1970 the top ten is all factory entrys! That's quite a swing in a short amount of time.
Here's the picture of Don Clark from Powerboat's coverage of the 69 Parker race. Obviously they didn't think it was a big deal, their written text was less than a full page and they had pictures of about eight boats, some like this.
Thanks for the clarification. I always thought Mercury was more involved at an earlier date. Sounds like in the early days it was like the big 3 car manufacturers....sliding special parts out the back door to racers.
Some might say the factory involvment made it harder/impossible for the independants by the time the 1970's rolled around. Too bad boat racing doesn't generate the excitment today as it did back in the day.
There is no doubt that the excitement level has dropped significantly in recent years.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Old fiberglass
Back to the factory involvement issue: in the early to mid 60's Mercury backed dealers (Dave Craig, Johnny Covals/Dick O'dea, Jon Culver), employees (Odell, Sirois, etc) and ? (Chuck Mersereau) with boats and engines. By 1965 engines were beginning to find there way into various racing dealerships( K&K OB where I raced out of, Valachovic Marine,etc, etc). with "memo billing" (a wink and a nod). Some boats from manufacturers like Glastron and Dorsett also were delivered with "special" construction for racing at drastically reduced pricing or memo billing as well. That was the environment prior to the era of Willabee's description above.
T2x
1968 was:??---Quote:
Originally Posted by willabee
Bill Sirois and I finished sixth in Lonnie Todd's Wing, "Hot Toddy"; Ernie Threlkeld finished seventh or eighth in the OMC single pipe Wing; I think Bob Massey was in the top ten in his Wing: Doen't anyone have the official results?
From 1942 until 1967 OMC was officially out of racing. Around 1960 they started sneaking a little bit into racing with Ralph Evinrude's personal money but made no overt effort as a company until 1967 - taking Kiekhaefer completely by surprise.
Suddenly there was a new motor and new brands to look at, talk about, and more importantly, write about ... and it wasn't Merc
Psychologically, Kiekhaefer was playing catchup in '67 and '68, but in reality OMC's efforts, though dramatic, were minimal and Merc still dominated OPC racing. Strang carefully chose his races, his boats and his drivers for maximum return on a minimal investment ... and it worked ... photographers took pictures of the new equipment, typewriters clacked away and type was set ... OMC's return was big news; that they won races was even more news aka free publicity.
This is why there was a sudden boom in factory involvement from all sides in the late 60's