OMC's 4-Rotor Wankel Racing Engine - The Real Story

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Originally Posted by Rotary John

Jackie: If you recall this was 1973 and OMC was having record profits. One of Ken's posts shows OMC's financials at the time. Nobody said anyone threatened a lawsuit. What actually happened, was they threatened to have Robert McNamara (sec of defense at the time) personally call. He never did. Look at Ingersol Rand's 1000 HP oil field rotary. They have been running for 10 of 10000's of hrs.
John

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JOHN,-----I stand corrected--i never heard about the oil rig rotary, But being the cynic that i am, i suspect the RPM/S on that motor would be in the region of 10 rev per week to make it go the distance.
Tried to find any data on the I/R rotary, seems they are still in R&D and currently working on a 30KW 60 hp LUMP from 126 cu. ins.----- has 17-1 compression but they don't push it past 1850 RPM. [can't help but wonder why]. Failed to find the one that runs 10 of 10000's of hrs. unless you mean the old Curtis Wright one ?? Found the Cat engines that drove compressors for 1000/s of hours within the oil industry Did find the trouble they were having keeping seals intact and they thought it would be better to go off in another direction with vanes and seek government funding. Look out "Heartbreak Alley", you got a whole new bunch of enthusiasts coming to visit.
Maybe Willa's right and i am getting to be -----'OLE CRANKY'
Maybe i'm pissed at OMC for doing it before Mercury. It was a valiant effort-and i admire all who worked on the project.---- But pleeeeeeeeeease don't ever tell me again OMC were not serious.!!!!!!

the government does use the engines for portable generators, I know of one local person who has a rather large private shop, complete with engine dyno, and pretty much his sole purpose is development for the government.

I have obviously never owned a rotary engine as a outboard, but I have owned a rotary powered vehicle, and usually more then one, for the last 19 years. Never had one let me down.

But I do also own a Rx7 with a LT1 swap, just because I wanted one, not due to engine failure, drives totally different then my turbo rotary set up RX7

a small mention of OMC in this
http://books.google.com/books?id=1UOduBQ8f7IC

Guys:
It's not well known, but the largest number of unmaned drones, the sparrow, uses a rotary engine. Jackie, it uses a modified Norton designed engine.

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Originally Posted by Rotary John

Guys:
It's not well known, but the largest number of unmaned drones, the sparrow, uses a rotary engine. Jackie, it uses a modified Norton designed engine.

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Thar's something else i did not know John. I gather from this ,that there's a lot of them----they're small-----and they do not need to run at high perf levels, but do need to be reliable -----light----economical--- am i right ????
Keith Duckworth of Cosworth did a lot of work for Norton and Triumph, but he led me to believe it was to do with a new breed of diesels that had all those attributes.
My beliefs are not cast in stone about rotaries, i just never came across one that was viable. Am still puzzled as to why it is not a front runner in the recognised engine fields .

Jackie

They car industry ws scard away years ago as the combustion chamber surface to volume ratio is very bad so you have a lot of surface to condense mixture and then it doesn't get burnt so creates very bad emissions.

That may be a different now with stratified combustion when using DFI????

Powerabout

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Originally Posted by powerabout

Jackie

They car industry ws scard away years ago as the combustion chamber surface to volume ratio is very bad so you have a lot of surface to condense mixture and then it doesn't get burnt so creates very bad emissions.

That may be a different now with stratified combustion when using DFI????

Powerabout

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John, If the car industry was scared away, the marine industry does not want it any more, it would appear that only a few people with unlimited funds and boundless patience, ie; philanthropists, governments, or billionaires, where cost in relation to results does not matter one iota are the only players left in the game.
Am still of the opinion that the Wankel is a flawed piece of kit that will continue to break hearts of intelligent engineers over the next century.
With todays technology [ which is awesome ] and the new materials available [even more so ] if there was ever going to be a viable rotory, i think we would have seen it by now.
Thank God there are people who still have faith and will strive to fulfil their beliefs, they are to be admired or pitied according to who's watching. Do not stop trying to convince me John, i promise to listen to everything you tell me. Sincerely. The question is quite simple--------------------------------IS THERE A WANKEL OR ROTORY THAT IS A VIABLE PROPOSITION ?????

Jackie:
Google "Norton Rotary". Some neet pictures and articles of the old and new Norton rotary bike, Made in England no less. 170 Hp from 588cc.
John

Sorry John to keep harping on the same old theme, but not even Norton could keep the rotary alive. There was a lot of discussion as to how the cubic capacity should be measured so 170 hp from 588cc while not disputed ,has never been ratified by any of the recognised ruling bodies.
A very wealthy philanthropist owned the company which bears out my previous statement. Suzuki had already thrown in the towel, so i can only repeat my previous witterings-------it is a flawed piece of kit that nobody has ever turned into a profitable production. There will still be more effort and cash chucked at this design and it will still keep being chucked on the scrap heap, whilst the engineers jump off tower blocks in frustration. Look at the obituary on the damn thing -----Rolls Royce, Daimler Benz, GMC, Suzuki, OMC. AUDI NSU, Some very bright lads worked for these companies-----not one of them made it viable.

If you have not read anything current about The Wankel:
Freedom Motors is the exclusive licensee of Moller International engine technology.

History
Principles
Technology
Advantages

Performance
Proprietary Technology
Rotapower Engine Technology
(Acquired or Developed)
•Patented intake and porting arrangement increases power by 50% versus OMC rotary engine of the same displacement.

•Low cost patented approach to insulating the rotor bearing from the rotor.

•Proprietary tip seals and rotor housing coating provides projected seal life of over 10,000 hours.

•Tuned intake and exhaust system to achieve over 100% volumetric efficiency (using SuperTrapp technology).

•Patented composite coating has the following advantages:
1 Lowers specific fuel consumption by over 16%.
2 Reduces rotor housing cooling load by 25%.
3 Reduces rotor cooling air requirements by over 40%.
4 Reduces emissions to near zero with charge cooling.
5 Provides solid lubrication at very elevated temperatures (600° F)

•State-of-the-art fuel injection system.

•Operated Freedom Motors developed engines on diesel, alcohol and kerosene as fuels.

•Patented lubrication system eliminates either mixing oil with fuel (OMC), or injecting oil into incoming air stream (Mazda).

http://www.moller.com/rpproprietary.htm Check this website out, pictures of several models.

Backfire ;)

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Originally Posted by Backfire

If you have not read anything current about The Wankel:
Freedom Motors is the exclusive licensee of Moller International engine technology.

History
Principles
Technology
Advantages

Performance
Proprietary Technology
Rotapower Engine Technology
(Acquired or Developed)
•Patented intake and porting arrangement increases power by 50% versus OMC rotary engine of the same displacement.

•Low cost patented approach to insulating the rotor bearing from the rotor.

•Proprietary tip seals and rotor housing coating provides projected seal life of over 10,000 hours.

•Tuned intake and exhaust system to achieve over 100% volumetric efficiency (using SuperTrapp technology).

•Patented composite coating has the following advantages:
1 Lowers specific fuel consumption by over 16%.
2 Reduces rotor housing cooling load by 25%.
3 Reduces rotor cooling air requirements by over 40%.
4 Reduces emissions to near zero with charge cooling.
5 Provides solid lubrication at very elevated temperatures (600° F)

•State-of-the-art fuel injection system.

•Operated Freedom Motors developed engines on diesel, alcohol and kerosene as fuels.

•Patented lubrication system eliminates either mixing oil with fuel (OMC), or injecting oil into incoming air stream (Mazda).

http://www.moller.com/rpproprietary.htm Check this website out, pictures of several models.

Backfire ;)

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Same jargon -------different date,----same claims as always----wonderful !!!!! I still want to see ONE SINGLE COMPANY, PRODUCING ANY ROTARY ENGINE, SHOWING A PROFIT.
I think it's time to cut the crap, and admit----THE WANKEL IS FLAWED.

'show me any American company that makes conventional engines that makes a profit'...

sorry couldn't resist but I guess what you say is true

You are absolutely right, and it doesn't have to be american. Honda ,Renault , have been closed for 6 months in GB and France. VW living off past profits, and the far east still lying through their back teeth. One day, profit will not be a dirty word. Meanwhile thanks for tolerating my grumpiness

Isn't Mazda still developing the rotary engine? Their web site says they've been building them since 1967 and are still improving them. Didn't they have some big wins in car racing too.
http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/
Mark N

Biggest thing being developed at Mazda are the string of lawyers defending the lawsuits against the rotary. Dealers hate 'em and the bad publicity they bring