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I was shocked too! In my S3000 I'm running a crank and rods I bought from Brendan five years ago that he said was used for two F1 races, hell I even reused the main bearings! I ran it pretty hard for four Wisconsin summers before rebuilding it. I realize I'm not running 10K RPM but I do run it 8500 for a mile or two sometimes in my STV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Bull
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=273pOqtvAhI
I have bought countless used "throw aways" internal hard parts sans pistons and have been just fine with what others chuck to the curb. The overseas f1 circuit I can see as they race on turbulent courses with a 9600 or no rev limit.
Anyhoo....
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulR
Yea your Power's 2.5 S 3000 most definitely runs very well wide open for miles On Shawno lake:D
Didn’t realize those S3000s were so delicate. Must be because they rotate in the wrong direction??? :rolleyes:
Cause the S3000 powerhead I bought from Diamond in 2002 and converted to a Drag motor by bolting my 260 electrical components on it has seen 10,000rpm plenty times in the past 18 years. I ran the sh!t out of it for a few years, sold it to a friend along with my mirage and he ran the snot out of it for years, then laid it up for a while, then sold it to another friend who sold it to another and that guy is still running it. Must’ve been one of those factory “ringers”. Or maybe Marty and Joe dusted it with Diamond dust before they sold it to me? ;) Hope they did the same with my current motor...
But I have to admit that all of this talk about 2.5s being “disposable” makes me even more glad that Caldwell’s doing his thing.
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photo credit: Shaun Torrente Racing
Attachment 474483
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That clamp bracket looks strikingly similar to the later design old up/down assembly I have.Quote:
Originally Posted by noli
Looks like they are lightening everything they can, like those skeletal steering wings, which I have to say look pretty cool.
Nothing to see here!
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start up the motor and you're in gear
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Holy crap, I can’t believe that thing made it to prototype.
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cool pic
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Its kinda like an L6 except half as many. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by noli
That's easy ... 1993 - 2008 / 40 - 60 hp two stroke outboard .. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by noli
That thing in the picture looks like two things .
1 ) they gleeped the way I align the drive shaft in a set of bushings .. ;)
2 ) L3 .. ??? LOL .. more like a pancake six , standing on end .. :D
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One the second day of crickets .. the V-8 zombies said to me .... 0 ;)
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also Chaz,
where's the midsection?
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I have the mid section...…..The Shadow,,,,,,,,,looks like a Suburu …….motor.
Nothing to see here!
It is good day to die...…….It is a good thing to have Short...…….Dependy on application.....Too low ,,,,, gives...….H2o problems…..Looks neat....but is that a #4 or.....#8... 1000 hp.... ya gonna need bigger...….You are going to have saddle mounts…..in non orthodox points...…...unless non steering …….Comm' guys ya just posted this to see if I can Repost...……….. Wait... looks like a#4...…..300 max......
with 360 Volts and Normal Amperage, it will workQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave S
I'm goin with the black plate .. or just like the 1000HP :rolleyes: motor .. it ain't been built yet either .. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by noli
Aunt Jemima axed to have her pancake taken down ... :p
https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/...tjemima002.jpg
If it stays like that ... they got me whooped .. :cheers: <---(skyline chilly)
https://i.imgur.com/Wc15XMVl.jpg
However, my bushing set comes with a CDC compliant 360* rotating paper towel rack .. :D
https://i.imgur.com/4TdMq9Jl.jpg
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Thanks Charlie, you're da best!
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...they got a skyline chili in palm city? hmmmm be right there. cinnamon
Why would a 4 stroke need a midsection?Quote:
Originally Posted by noli
I have it imported from Cincy ... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FUJIMO
Noli, thank ya sir .. but I have to ask. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by noli
Did you forward my P/M to the guilty party .. eerrrr ... Aunt Jemima as I asked you to do in return for taking down the picture ..:D
On the third day of crickets ... :cheers: <---( Beatle juice)
...lauderdale actually has TWO of them. no where else in florida. weird. oh wait, one in tampa. broward has almost 5,000 restaurants. well, they used to, before the "pulse"...(dark angel)...:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Let's dilute this thread even more...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
The Wayne 100 was a Corvair pancake 6 based off the Corvair engine, mated to a 180º swiveling drive. So old is new again...
Attachment 474659
Attachment 474660
Attachment 474661
Who went to the trouble to do all this way back in the day? IMCO.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
yes sir I did
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It will be a good platform......the problem is boat racing is not built from the top down. And guess who spoke those words.
HSkreemin ,Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroSkreamin
Is that what you think ... it's been diluted .. ?
I think it's been kept on life support and towards the top of page one ..;)
Sure the V-8 zombies saw it as the second coming , but lets be realistic , Just how many pages can they swing from Merc's **** before they read and listen to the propaganda from ........ racing . And see for themselves what it really is .
Before that .. let me say this. And it's gonna kill my whole act. :D
A good friend of mine asked what he should put on his Jupiter 31 for next year now that they no longer make E-teks . he mentioned Yamaha's .. I said you cant go wrong with a set of new 300 V-8 Mercs .. thats what he bought .
I was at my primary the other day. He said his friend bought one of those big azz twin hull fishin cats and that it had three 300 yamaha's. I told him it would have less drag and be faster , more economical with a pair of 450's . So I sold 4 motors , do you think Brunswick will give me a gift card to Flannigans ...:nonod: cheap ********
So Mercury makes a big unveil , the zombies go wild !
Their not selling them in the US .. I still wonder if that has sunk in yet :rolleyes:
I'd buy one , me too , Ohhh I love that motor . Last time Merc offered a warranty less motor for sale .. who really bought them , yes racers . So all the "fake I'd buy one" post's are the real fluff in the thread .
Though provoking posts either inspire good conversation , or flairs some's TDS and they get mad, take their ball and stew a while. It's been crickets for three days .. I hit that one right . :)
Left hand , forward only , special props ...$65,000.00 Right up a Hydrostream guy's alley ... :nonod: BTW , what are they offering that guy .. you know , the ones who put them where they are today.
They have 3.4L motors that could easily make 250 HP . They could offer 15" mids and sell em for the same thing as they got for a 300xs.
I can find an old slap stick comedy from the 1930's but you know what it looks like to have the rug pulled out .. thats why more than ever , guys are rebuilding what they have. I won't buy anything off the showroom floor from them .. and yes there are plenty that can and do .. but the silent majority .. not so much .
Say you buy a 300r or a couple of them. Does Mercury really have a Hi Performance / racing department.
You can't buy the 360 Intake , pistons or magic box. As a matter fact , if you try to work on your own motor they will drop you like a bad habit. Or try to get someone to flash your box for you .. they will call the law on you and him .. Nice .
Now I agree with racing what you currently sell . F1 I get it . Grass roots guys will go broke trying to keep up with the spending . There are always some that money doesn't matter ... but for the majority .. bad move.
They raced stock/ superstock with 280's long after that went out of production. Brief stop at the 200xs motors was a waste of time and money for some. After they went with production 300xs motors , look at how participation picked up. How'd you like to be the guy who builds a brand new boat and finds a set of good 300xs's .. right before they make the change to 300R's .. it's those guys they need to worry about. Again some can afford it .. other's pretend like they can and get put out.
Cranks , rods and pistons every four hours . At the very top , they throw money away. I got a friend in N. Carolina who bought a house on Lake Norman from selling used Winston , Nextel , Coke , cup chassis and drive trains .
Same thing happens in NHRA , teams will put a few passes on stuff and throw it in the dirt .. they can afford new stuff every time they swing the gates open.
Two strokes , if you get the exhaust port wider than 70% of the bore and turn it 2 or 3000 RPM past where it makes power .. it's going to wear out pretty quick . I get it , if you prop the boat to make it to the end of the long straight , it will be weak coming out of the corners. I'm surprised with the minds they have on staff, they haven't come up with a slider clutch on the driveshaft. Slip it out of the corners maybe 10% , lock it up at the end of the long straights . Save the motors and run faster laps. F-1 cars have at least a half a dozen cogs to choose from .
That nice little vid with the old guy and the young chickee .. was priceless . Stock motors , great emissions .. who is he / they kidding.
First thing those well funded teams are gonna do is knock em apart and go to work. If you want a front running piece , I'm sure it will be closer to $90,000.00 + for one of those .
Attachment 474686
30yr old 3.3 evinrudes were 250hpin the right hands they make almost 500 on pump gas on SAE certified dyno same cert merc dyno has.
LS make 6-700 on e85 with eBay turbos in race trim (useless in the outboard world with 1 gear)
Ls cant make weight and or hang with the new v8 in any outboard platform.
price on a apx doesn’t matter they r going to be very hard to get.
I know a Ole timer who turned 200hp 3.0 opti into fire breathing 3.8L monster and when I hit the lotto I know where I’m bringing my stupid new v8s :D
P.S. if any v8 lovers r throwing away ****ty old 20” CR 350hp I6 verados with lower saddles I’ll be happy to haul them to the scrap yard for free. :leaving:
........
No disrespect intended but this thread is about nothing IMO. No S+F'ers will see a "360" never mind buy one except for Spectre and I wish them good luck.
Mercury ........ give the public a 225 V6 Pro XS. Even better, a 500 lb V6 225 "R" for $20k instead of page upon page of bright shiny objects.
Give folks a HiPo option we can actually buy and use.
Chaz:
That's a lot of stuff to follow. I absolutely get that you don't see any "value" in new "expensive" product from Mercury.
You do realize that they could just stick with the fishing side of things, that's probably what pays their bills, right?
I'm happy they have some stuff available for stuff I might be able to afford someday.
You know, we used to have a really nice guy named Marty that would come and ask us if he could go through our dumpsters/55-gallon drums of parts to build his Vega drag car engines to run "Da Grove" when I ported cylinder heads in a race shop doing national championship tractor pulling engines, as well as Busch engines for a young man (at the time) named Matt Kenseth. Marty would pull pistons, rods, cams, bearings out and ask if he could keep them. I used to search through that stuff for my own creations occasionally, but not to the extent that he did. He'd then tell us how little he had in the engine. I thought it was interesting until one day a group of us rented Da Grove for a Friday, and Marty ran over his crank and everything connected to it on the big end, shutting down our track day because the regular cleanup crew didn't show up till the evening show. We're talking like 75-100 local cars from Madison/southern WI area on a nice June Friday. There was a lot of peeved dudes that had way nicer engines and cars. Not everyone has to have Trump money to build engines and have fun, and dumpster stuff is exactly that, dumpster material.
https://www.facebook.com/joehornickenterprises This is my buddy Joe, that I used to port cylinder heads and do engine development with. We used to joke that Marty would brag about "rubber rods, wooden pistons, chrome heddas, 3/4 race cam..."
Point is, Marty probably didn't have $1500 in his whole engine, and we were selling $40k engines at the time. They're not comparable. Same thing with the 360 NA and S3000. The 360 NA is definitely NOT putting out what it theoretically can; so does it not meet "F1" status because of this?
Did you watch any F1H2O racing last year? Particularly the final in Sharjah? I talked w/Dave Bush as he was riding in the cab to the race site, and everyone just wanted to finish the race. I watched 18 boats take the start, and 9 of them finish. Now I understand in drag racing, you're used to the field dividing in half every round, but in circle racing, I assure you that is not what the promoter is after.
I have made a living making engines produce as much power as possible, with some semblance of reliability. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don't. While I don't feel the 360 NA is super edgy tech, I do feel it will provide for reliable, consistent, great racing. If you check the rules as far as what is allowed to touch on the new engine, I'm pretty sure there's a whole explanation of how everyone is supposed to leave their d!ck beaters out of them. THAT'S what drives the cost up, spending buku dollars on modifying and lightening pieces. So now the expense is hulls and props. That's not restricted much now, and will become more important than ever.
Did you read the link that powerabout put to the EPA regs? It states that the new consumer product from Mercury is required to achieve 150 hours (You tell me how the EPA decides we put 50 hours a year on), and therefore must warranty it for a period of 3 years. On boats ranging from pontoons to barges. Would you like to sign up for paying out for that warranty? I read somewhere during the release of the V-8 in 2018 that Mercury spent $100's of 1,000's of dollars just in fuel on testing. That's why they run the way they do, on 87 octane. I appreciate your appreciation for toluene and other additives, but the average bear is too lazy to get the recipe right every time. Good enough...isn't!
I do look forward to the day that someone peels everything off one of these V-8's and has their way with it, ITB's, variable length intake runners, true headers, CNC-ported heads, lightweight/strong rods, forged pistons, and maybe even a flat plane crank...there's a metric $#!+ton of possibilities with this thing, but everyone is "scared" of it right now. Heck, your comment on throwaway blocks brings to mind a 0.005" or 0.010" piston and ring set would reclaim them (once they're out of warranty). Guys are just starting to play with the L6 and L4 Verado because you can find used engines with 2000-8000 hours on them. They're out there.
I just like to come here and chat with the boys, maybe learn a little, maybe help a little. I got nothin' to prove. But one thing that brings us all here is our love of fast outboard boats, and there are more of them now than ever before.
Just for the record, I started my career doing solely 2-stroke porting, pipes, and machine work. I was lucky enough that a really successful snowmobile racer took me under his wing and I had the opportunity to start as student and graduate to peer over the years. I owe a lot to that man. He and I were told by an outspoken Canadian racer in 1990 that snowmobile guys don't know how to make reliable outboard power. Well, that same dude ended up buying this engine from us after it ran the IOGP circuit and sat on poles and won a couple of races. So yes, I do have a little 2-stroke outboard experience, albiet a long time ago....
Attachment 474698
While you are correct that the 360 NA is targeted at F1H2O, if enough interest is shown in the good ol' U S of A, I'm pretty sure Mercury Racing would gladly take their money. I'm curious to see what the likes of Fairchild and Lamb have to say about this.
If I ever make it down to your neck of FL, I'll try to look ya up, Chaz, I'm sure we'd have a lot to talk about. :cheers: <<---------sasparillas;)
The 200xs sst is doing a great job in racing.
Its just that someone decided its an f2 engine.
We both know the "almost 500 HP on pump gas" motors might have started out as 3.3L , but not any more .. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by baja200merk
Well price does matter , when the guy says .. Pay the lady in the window.Quote:
LS make 6-700 on e85 with eBay turbos in race trim (useless in the outboard world with 1 gear)
Ls cant make weight and or hang with the new v8 in any outboard platform.
price on a apx doesn’t matter they r going to be very hard to get.
I thank you for making my point . E-bay parts , 600 -700 HP without even spending any "real" money. 1500 HP on a dedicated build , still using $2.00 a gallon fuel.
The Japs were the first to put things on a serious diet, follow the evolution of MX bikes .. they did the same thing to car's . Merc followed their lead , 25 years later.
No you won't .. you might sublet out some aspect's of the build, but you will hang it together yourself.Quote:
I know a Ole timer who turned 200hp 3.0 opti into fire breathing 3.8L monster and when I hit the lotto I know where I’m bringing my stupid new v8s :D
A good friend of mine picked me up one day in a Lambo that he took from their family lot. We wet out west of town to row it thru the box one time. When we got back he asked ... If you hit the lottery , what would you do .. well I would set the kid up with an allowance. Take the Mrs. for a couple laps around the world to make her happy. while we were gone, I'd have a realtor find me a building the size I need while I decided if I was gonna go with Hass, Makino, Rottler .. he cut me off, said dude you'd be rich as **** and all you can think of doing is going to work. Your ******* whacked in the head . Say what ya want, I know ya good enough to know your cut from the same cloth .. ;)
PS .. If ya think different , dude your whacked , you'd be rich and all you can think of doing is .... playing with fast outboards :cheers: <---( LTOMCtestcenter water)
WOW .My head hurts I think I will get in my boat with a couple of new Merc R motors and head to the Glen . I am just glad 1 of the manufactures makes a performance motor that I do not have to rebuild every year and has warranty . I dont have the money for a big CC with 4 5 or 6 motors but we may need to be thanking those guys or those motors might be obsolete .
Being from Wisconsin, I can see why you would be partial towards Merc .. err .. Brunswick corp. They employ a vast number of workers in your state. They employ a bunch of people in my state as well .. so for that I am grateful to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroSkreamin
After this nice young lady cut a slab of skin off the back of my hand yesterday, I did the only right thing to do, I stopped by the auto parts store to buy 2 gallons of oil and a filter for my truck. I could have sworn i had a $70.00 dollar bill in my pocket before I walked in .. the whole world has lost it's mind.
So I reckon $9000.00 dollars retail for two shafts, a few gears and a slab of cast aluminum .. err .. a lower unit, is about right .. :rolleyes:
And don't say you can't afford to buy a new motor or two .. It's that your sensibility won't "allow" you to spend that kind of money on "just" an outboard motor. People who didn't have to actually earn that money themselves, seem as a rule .. tend to spend more freely .. :smiletest:
Don't look now , but your putting your resume out there to show your experience.Quote:
You know, we used to have a really nice guy named Marty that would come and ask us if he could go through our dumpsters/55-gallon drums of parts to build his Vega drag car engines to run "Da Grove" when I ported cylinder heads in a race shop doing national championship tractor pulling engines, as well as Busch engines for a young man (at the time) named Matt Kenseth. Marty would pull pistons, rods, cams, bearings out and ask if he could keep them. I used to search through that stuff for my own creations occasionally, but not to the extent that he did. He'd then tell us how little he had in the engine. I thought it was interesting until one day a group of us rented Da Grove for a Friday, and Marty ran over his crank and everything connected to it on the big end, shutting down our track day because the regular cleanup crew didn't show up till the evening show. We're talking like 75-100 local cars from Madison/southern WI area on a nice June Friday. There was a lot of peeved dudes that had way nicer engines and cars. Not everyone has to have Trump money to build engines and have fun, and dumpster stuff is exactly that, dumpster material.
https://www.facebook.com/joehornickenterprises This is my buddy Joe, that I used to port cylinder heads and do engine development with. We used to joke that Marty would brag about "rubber rods, wooden pistons, chrome heddas, 3/4 race cam..."
Point is, Marty probably didn't have $1500 in his whole engine, and we were selling $40k engines at the time. They're not comparable. Same thing with the 360 NA and S3000. The 360 NA is definitely NOT putting out what it theoretically can; so does it not meet "F1" status because of this?
I'm fortunate to have had both good and bad teachers. So I would know the difference, or more .. who I wanted to be like when I grew up. One that i listened to did Bodine's heads when they were all done by hand. i remember the old man at WeldTech CNC heads say to his boys , when I'm gone , get Carney to do one port for you , and pay his whatever he ask's . So when he went into grinding with a smile (right to left, light pressure- heavy - back to light, repeat ) or not to chamfer the exhaust guide hole ..as he's drawing an exaggerated parachute with air "spilling" out of the sides .. I listened and learned. Sad that a true craftsman like that closed his doors to work for the Ft. Lauderdale water dept so he could have good insurance for his family.
When I left Miami and dropped the anchor here, I went to the airport, all the marina's , transmission shops, the race track's ,circle, drag and road course and left them my contact info. I have been over my head in work ever since.
Yea, I'm lucky too ... I never had a real job in my life either. ;)Quote:
Did you watch any F1H2O racing last year? Particularly the final in Sharjah? I talked w/Dave Bush as he was riding in the cab to the race site, and everyone just wanted to finish the race. I watched 18 boats take the start, and 9 of them finish. Now I understand in drag racing, you're used to the field dividing in half every round, but in circle racing, I assure you that is not what the promoter is after.
I have made a living making engines produce as much power as possible, with some semblance of reliability. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don't. While I don't feel the 360 NA is super edgy tech, I do feel it will provide for reliable, consistent, great racing. If you check the rules as far as what is allowed to touch on the new engine, I'm pretty sure there's a whole explanation of how everyone is supposed to leave their d!ck beaters out of them. THAT'S what drives the cost up, spending buku dollars on modifying and lightening pieces. So now the expense is hulls and props. That's not restricted much now, and will become more important than ever.
So let me get this straight, because the drivers have said , I need more power. The guys with the grinder pulled the corners of the exhaust port up to where there is little to no radius left , and made them fast and unreliable ... you think it's a good idea to make F-1 the new IROC class .. :cool:
No I didn't read the EPA BS. nor will I . China is killing the world in more ways than one. Nancy Pelosi flies in a private air liner back and forth , takes trips around the world on our dime .. Am I really gonna do as they say , not as they do .. Ever see how they cut up an old cruise ship , or military vessel ... ? Nothing I could do will ever touch what they put in the water .. never :nonod:Quote:
Did you read the link that powerabout put to the EPA regs? It states that the new consumer product from Mercury is required to achieve 150 hours (You tell me how the EPA decides we put 50 hours a year on), and therefore must warranty it for a period of 3 years. On boats ranging from pontoons to barges. Would you like to sign up for paying out for that warranty? I read somewhere during the release of the V-8 in 2018 that Mercury spent $100's of 1,000's of dollars just in fuel on testing. That's why they run the way they do, on 87 octane. I appreciate your appreciation for toluene and other additives, but the average bear is too lazy to get the recipe right every time. Good enough...isn't!
Sad to say , but it's won't happen. Kids want new cell phones, not new motors or old ones that they can dig into.Quote:
I do look forward to the day that someone peels everything off one of these V-8's and has their way with it, ITB's, variable length intake runners, true headers, CNC-ported heads, lightweight/strong rods, forged pistons, and maybe even a flat plane crank...there's a metric $#!+ton of possibilities with this thing, but everyone is "scared" of it right now. Heck, your comment on throwaway blocks brings to mind a 0.005" or 0.010" piston and ring set would reclaim them (once they're out of warranty). Guys are just starting to play with the L6 and L4 Verado because you can find used engines with 2000-8000 hours on them. They're out there.
The population say's Merc come out with this model . Heck I think they are a bit tarded for not supplying the people that put them where they are at. I ask something once, if I can't get it , I make it myself. Simple :smiletest:
And like I said, the silent majority get sticker shock, and fix what they already own.
Yes, welcome back from the self imposed "cricket moratorium" I missed ya .. ;) :DQuote:
I just like to come here and chat with the boys, maybe learn a little, maybe help a little. I got nothin' to prove. But one thing that brings us all here is our love of fast outboard boats, and there are more of them now than ever before.
Just for the record, I started my career doing solely 2-stroke porting, pipes, and machine work. I was lucky enough that a really successful snowmobile racer took me under his wing and I had the opportunity to start as student and graduate to peer over the years. I owe a lot to that man. He and I were told by an outspoken Canadian racer in 1990 that snowmobile guys don't know how to make reliable outboard power. Well, that same dude ended up buying this engine from us after it ran the IOGP circuit and sat on poles and won a couple of races. So yes, I do have a little 2-stroke outboard experience, albiet a long time ago....
Attachment 474698
While you are correct that the 360 NA is targeted at F1H2O, if enough interest is shown in the good ol' U S of A, I'm pretty sure Mercury Racing would gladly take their money. I'm curious to see what the likes of Fairchild and Lamb have to say about this.
If I ever make it down to your neck of FL, I'll try to look ya up, Chaz, I'm sure we'd have a lot to talk about. :cheers: <<---------sasparillas;)
Funny you say that about the purveyors of different motorsports.
Even at the track where I was the five time Q-16 champion , made hundred's of six second / 200 MPH passes , I had other Jr. Dragster fathers tell me, running these briggs motors is nothing like what your use to. I thought .. what ? I had a 2.5 horse minibike like 40 years ago , OK ... When my kid went quicker than the 7.70 minimum and faster than the 85 mph max (1/8 th mile) i had to beg the officials to not jerk his license. They didn't say that no more .. :nonod:
And guess what .. driving a 100 mph boat .. is nothing like .. :rolleyes:
Ok , so the new IROC class , after the first year , when they freshen them up .. Ohh wait , they can't do that .. they gotta buy new motors .. how foolish of me .. :smiletest:
I do have a question .. I always knew that chains and sprockets worked pretty good in the vertical position . Ever see a used Verado oil pump drive chain ?
OK .. two questions .. :D
How do you think the V-8's three horizontal chains , and plastic guides are gonna look .. especially after someone does get one to pull to 8 or 9000 RPM .. ?
Askin for a friend .. and yes , stop by any time .. :cheers: <---( diet Mt dew )
9:26 am .. middle of the week . Goin for a boat ride .. Ya got a silver spoon I can borrow .. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06man
I know someone trying the price He was quoted is exactly like the 400r vs the 400ROS exactly double.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G
That "silver spoon" was created over a 30 year period of working at U.P.S. for 60 hours a week and having the balls and smarts to make money with his money. Two things--1. Its a "golden" spoon not silver at this point and 2. he is lucky to still be alive and able to enjoy it (out of 9 lives, he has gone thru 8 3/4 of them) but hes the best guy ever...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Joe