This Rotary conversation seems to be going around in circles.....
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This Rotary conversation seems to be going around in circles.....
Not even close. That sound sounds like a sewing machine with a stuck bobbin. The real thing had a deep roar. Ask some of the merc guys, as they were usually behind it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Bull
I guess that's better tan up and down.Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
Jackie: Go to Cubewano.com. They are producing rotaries in your home country for your and other military's. Size, weight/power running on heavy fuel.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackiewilson
This Rotary conversation seems to be going around in circles.....[/QUOTE]
I guess that's better than up and down.
This from an unknown source:
"There are direct injection common rail diesel rotary engines in development in Europe. They are spark ignition and have the ability to run multiple fuels and much wider fuel tolerances than piston engines. Power to weight ratio is high and smooth running. I have seen a 2 rotor turbo (700cc) engine producing 135Hp at 8,000 rpm. A 4 rotor turbo (2000cc) has been tested at over 400Hp at 8000rpm - on diesel… 6 and 8 rotor versions are rumoured. Primary market application is power generation.
They are not yet publicly available or released, but they are coming. I know as I am involved in the project.
Mazda rotaries are great engines but the Renesis was crying out for fuel system development to combat the limitations. Think about port injected petrol, where is the fuel mixture? Also, petrol will affect the oil film in the inlet side of the chamber and reduce lubricity so potential to increase Apex wear.
Direct injection diesel works well for longevity as it is a high lubricity fuel and with modern stratified charge you can position a rich mixture near the spark plug for a leaner and more efficient burn.
Improved radial ports and no throttle butterfly removes pumping losses in the diesel cycle.
Keep your eyes peeled in 18 months time in the marine field, these will be supercharged..."
If its the same project I think it is, be careful. The SOB still owes me $250,000 for consulting work I did 3 yrs. ago. He's all talk and no action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob V
Jackie: I still consider you a friend. I'm too old to get mad at people anymore. I might even come to OFF this year and but you a drink; or two; where we can discuss the positive attributes of the rotary.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackiewilson
In all honesty Johno, old guys like me who beat the drum to keep that old bastard with a scythe over his shoulder at bay, need cranky, geeky,chest thumping opinionated individuals to disagree with to survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
Glad to hear your not gonna throw your dollies.
Will be great to see you again wherever we meet ( preferably this side of the cloud line )
As to the "Positive attributes" of the rotary, your gonna have to find one first !!!!!!
You mention the ROAR, tigers roar, dogs and Mercuries SNARL, (but only some of them).
Mention Rotary and money comes to mind quarter million dollars for CONSULTING ? still owed ? What the feck was the original fee-------- you sure as hell got SOMETHING, surely, even by today's standards, that's a weeks work for a premier league soccer player.
Johno, had a look at the cubewana site, saw they were at the unmanned vehicle show. My friend who is a bit of a geek also exhibited there, looking for sponsors and military contracts seems to be the reason for these shows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
Posh bumph and impressive glossy literature no longer cuts the ice with me
All this halved fuel consumption crap reminds me of Mercurys fuel saving blurb which dominated the 70/s, but 15 years on any given model would burn the same amount of fuel as it did 15 years before.
my friend here in Orlando has a twin 225 Yamis on a swiper and he uses more fuel than I did with my 450 hp. Ford Cosworth 35 years ago, just telling you, people tell lies about fuel usage.
LPG injected rotary, thats what we need!!!!!
Rotary technology and hydrostream are my life. This is the coolest thread i have ever read. Thank you for sharing!
[QUOTE=kno
Yeah----I know the feeling Tonka toys do it to me .<safe77;2595382]rotary technology="" and="" hydrostream="" are="" my="" life.="" this="" is="" the="" coolest="" thread="" i="" have="" ever="" read.="" thank="" you="" for="" sharing![="" quote]
</safe77;2595382]rotary>
[QUOTE=jackiewilson;2595879]Is that supposed to be a joke?Quote:
Originally Posted by kno
Yeah----I know the feeling Tonka toys do it to me .<safe77;2595382
[QUOTE=knot<safe77;2596139]No 'SUPPOSED" about it.!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jackiewilson
If rotary technology is your life, then just maybe you can answer the question i have been asking Rotory John( who in spite of our differences is a good friend) for years, CAN YOU SHOW ME JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF AN UP AND RUNNING, VIABLE PROFIT MAKING ROTARY ????
For the last hundred years the rotarians have worked tirelessly trying to do just that------the greatest names in motor technology i.e. Rolls Royce---Mercedes---GM----and dozens more have tried and failed. WHY ??? because the damn thing is fundamentally flawed.
For the last forty years they have been telling me excuse after excuse-----wait until the technology is here to make the rotor tips last-----and to stop the seals blowing etc, etc, etc, damn and blast it WE HAVE BEEN TO THE MOON------EVERY KID HAS AN IPHONE----- just how much more technology do you need to make the damn thing work. Time to piss or get off the pot.
The sad part is the only real joke is the "WANKEL"
Now go for it Mr Knot and PROVE me wrong.
</safe77;2596139][quote=jackiewilson;2595879]
Rotax is french for rotary ya??
I deleted my comments on behalf of your buddy he's a little more understanding in a pm.....again thanks for the history onthe rotary outboard very cool!
Don't tell jackie, but my wife had an RX7 and I thought it was one of the quickest things I've ever driven. It had no service problems and handled like an alky shifter cart, which ain't bad....... :D
naturally aspirated 4 rotor 2.6 liter!!! Almost half the size of 5.0 liter smallblock!! 26B rotary power!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
WATCH. Rx 792p on this list.. very impressive and sounds amazing
http://m.youtube.com/results?q=26b%2...uploaded=&sm=3
There was a guy in Melbourne that was on his way to a rotary on a merc.
He had the adapter plate cast and then sold the stuff i think?
Wow that would have been cool. Find it lol i can't imagine 12,000 rpms on an outboard 2-300 stock horsepower...... Sounds perfectQuote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
trouble is 300hp is no longer a big deal so if you can do 300hp at 10k you need to be real light or make 400hp?
Yes i know what you mean but i know it's possible2 get 350 hp 12,000 rpm motor using a 1,3 liter 180 engine. So that cuts the weight in half with a small horsepower increase compared to a 300x also rpm increase and losing half the weight. Idk maybe I'm just dreaming.. would love to see it.. the numbers work especially because its a boat the rpm play a big part. ... i definitely know what your saying it has to be worth it..Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
how heavy is a 300hp rotary with water jacketed exhaust?
I think a rotary needs to be turboed to get an advantage over a 2 stroke
No it don't!Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
135 lbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
so about the weight of a V4?
Was the OMC rotary all aluminium?
Cheers
Housings were alum. rotors were iron and crank was steel. With todays developments, 450 HP from the same engine is very possible; at 8000 RPM. Unfortunately the cost to build and develop one is prohibitive and as soon as it kicked someone ass it would be banned again.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
Hey Johno, nice to see your in good form again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
You of all people know ,it has always been prohibitive to build and develop the ROTORY.
we ain't never going to agree on what you won and what you lost and the reasons why.
Interesting though that you can still only get 450hp@ 8,000. That old Cosworth motor of mine was pulling 1,000 hp @ 18,000 when they finally pulled it (2010 I think)
they are using it as a fuel pump to feed the jet in the latest land speed record attempt.
Just how did you ever measure the cubic capacity of a rotor, jog my memory, I forget things easily these days. All the very best , j.
it wouldnt be 1000hp even at 28,000 rpmQuote:
Originally Posted by jackiewilson
wow how did i miss this now it will take me a week to read all that lol
A 3.4 cosworth turning 18,000 rpm?:confused:
No... a real Cosworth Formula one race car motor turning 18,000 RPM...
Jackie ran it in this "outboard" Tunnel hull back in the 70's, and is restoring it today.
Cosworth is a major race engine builder who dicked around a bit with Mercury's 3.4 in a joint effort to improve that concept.... hence the "Cosworth" tag on some of them.
Attachment 292683
2 liters Jackie; 2 liters
Dfv's only did 13500 I thought?
And in 1970 they didn't make more horsepower than the last of the 3.5s ( HBW Cozzy)
I think Jackies laughing as his wind up has worked
Ps it was only a I drive ssm after all
I hear its being restored as well
That boat needs to be in a hall of fame
the Cosworth I had was a mere 400 hp from a 3 liter DFV -----had 10,000 ceiling but never used more than 8,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
By 2010 most of the formula one motors ----Renault, Ferrari, Cosworth were pretty close to 1,000 hp and all were pulling close to 20,000 rpm.
Will be interesting to see what this new breed of silent motors brings this year, half the fun of racing is the noise and the " ground trembling".
Yep
They are v6 and turbo with a very tight max fuel flow restrictor ( new for this year)
But we all know the only use for a v6 is 2 stroke outboard
Did 10 laps of the barcelona gp track in a mid 90's f1 a few years back
Had a hbw cozzy in it
Car was dangerouly easy to drive as an amateur
Would pull away at walking pace in 5th gear
Was the best £2000 I ever spent in one day
:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
John, you know my views on capacity-----two litres is big enough for any application anywhere, all it needs are engineers to work round it, twostroke, diesel , wankel I don 't care. not s/c or turbo, that's runaway power and screws any system, nor trick sh-t fuels. All I ever wanted was a workable formula, but in the end I couldn't get anyone to see sense, so amidst all the politics the only losers were us and the demise of powerboat racing. J.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John