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I really think that EVs and ICE can co-exist together
it's like some love Yamaha motors and others love Mercury motors
if you have solar panels on your roof and love EVs, go at it
if you love going to the pump and load up your car with Ethanol based fuels, go for it
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They're going to have to... If we want air travel and planing hull boats.Quote:
Originally Posted by noli
-Peter
For those worried about Tesla's starting on fire, this guy tried to kill his family driving off a 250 ft cliff, everyone lived and the car did NOT start on fire.
From 2012 – 2021, there has been approximately one Tesla vehicle fire for every 210 million miles traveled.
I like those odds
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...lifo-rcna68173
Government data show gasoline vehicles are up to 100x more prone to fires than EVs
| Jan 12 2022 -
<figure class="img-border featured-image" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 0px 0px 1em 1rem; display: inline-block; line-height: 0; position: relative; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Proxima Nova", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 18px;">https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploa...rip=all&w=1600</figure>Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Unless it pertains to EV fires, as that’s more smoke and mirrors. There is an ongoing flow of misinformation publicized by the less informed (or downright malicious) purporting that electric vehicles and their battery chemistry are more prone to fires than their gasoline counterparts. Aside from the obvious argument that gasoline vehicles operate via combustion, a new study shows how much more prevalent gas vehicle fires are compared to EVs.
As EV adoption continues to soar year over year around the globe, the bitter truth is that gasoline combustion remains the liquid gold standard, even if its days are inevitably numbered.
While a growing amount of consumers have stated their next vehicle purchase will be all electric, there are still plenty of coal rollers with a death grip on their gas cans, savoring their final sips of lame-duck, gasoline-based kool-aid. Truthfully, that anti-EV crowd remains a minority group that is hopefully dwindling further as electric vehicles continue to tiptoe toward price parity with ICE cars.
A majority of animosity toward electric vehicles, like many sad situations in this world, comes from a simple lack of understanding and knowledge on the subject. The average consumer still believes they need at least 500 miles of range to commute to their job eight miles away, and the thought of having to sit for 18–25 minutes at a fast charger feels like torture compared to a 3–5 minute gas station visit, right?
These are common excuses we as EV advocates encounter in daily conversations with people. We also hear that EVs will burn people’s houses down when they’re charging, yet people continue to buy cars that will actually kill you if you run them without proper ventilation.
EV fires are a genuine issue of concern, like any risk for drivers, and should be treated as such. GM has had its hands full the past year as the result of some Bolt EVs and EUVs catching fire, and they join a list of other EV automakers who have seen similar issues. However, those numbers pale in comparison to the fire risk of gasoline vehicles, and there is data to prove it.
<figure class="wp-block-image alignwide size-large" style="box-sizing: inherit; margin: 1em 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Proxima Nova", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, helvetica, arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; font-size: 18px;">https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploa...rip=all&w=1000</figure>New study shows EV fires are far less common than in gas vehicles.
According to findings pointed out by AutoInsuranceEZ, vehicles that operate using gasoline are tenfold more likely to catch fire compared to EVs.
The study compiled and compared data from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS), and government recall data from Recalls.gov to put together the charts you see above and below.
From that data, you will notice that far more fire recalls were made in 2020 for gasoline models, which also include hybrids in which vehicle batteries garner 100% of their energy directly from gasoline combustion in the engine.
Just more inconvenient FACTS
So Cudes... In your own words, (since as usual, you didn't provide us any), what do you think the point of the article was?
-That BEV cars have sophisticated automatic ground fault cutoffs that work, (most of the time) in accidents?
OR
-That lithium ion batteries are NOT more prone to spontaneous fire than gasloine?
IOW, what should the curious reader, looking to become better informed, make of this article?
And OHBTW, since the author of the article is tight with the latest politically slanted buzzwords, I'll use another one myself. There is a subversive bit of "misinformation" (four words), embedded in a snarky sentence that would never pass muster as objective journalism. Bonus points to anyone who can call them them out.
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By the way Cudes, just so we can lay this one to rest, I haven't run one of my Crossflows for going on five years now. It's been Merc V6, Mercaha FourStroke, and Yammie carb 40.
-Peter
Hey Cluncker https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/16186...jpg&name=small
A recent study conducted by AutoInsuranceEZ using data from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) showed that electric cars in the US caught fire at a rate of 25.1 per 100,000 sales compared to 1,530 for ICE vehicles and 3,475 for hybrids.Jan 25, 2022
CudaQuote:
Originally Posted by CUDA
I think those numbers do not tell the whole truth as it is not states the number of sales of battery cars of said number "100,000 sales"
I found another statistic
https://vedaing.com.mk/blog/statisti...e-fire-causes/
when you look at the graph can we say roughly 60 to 65% of fires in an EV car start when the car wast just standing still! ( not involved in an accident one or dual )
That is not very comforting i do hope you have your tesla outside or atleast in a fire proof enclosure in your garage
and lets hope less fire prone batterys are around the corner but i am very sceptical :nonod: :leaving:
My head hurts! Lol
Well noli, times up .. :smiletest: You own me lunch ... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by noli
I would let you buy, just because you have ignored your responsibility. Normally people who come to lunch with me, at a restaurant I have picked, in my hometown, are guests ... and I would never let them pay ... ;)
This was more a test of character ... and me not holding my breath, should tell you how you finished ... :o
Could EV and fossil fuel exist together. Of course it could and should.
But you have learned nothing ... !!!!!!!!
Joe P. asked you to ponder the event of a natural disaster ... crickets.
Broom Hilda .. we're gonna put coal miners out of business ... yea, thats American :rolleyes:
Brain dead Biden, we're gonna declare war on fossil fuel .. only someone who hates America would cut off it's life blood.
I have stated before, stop selling gas tomorrow, see what happens .... crickets.
I can only see those who ignore any or all the above as ignorant or that they hate America as well ... little room in between ... :nonod:
It's nothing like Mercury vs Yamaha. Both are sold in a free enterprise market system of sorts. The 1980's "anti-dumping" law forces a certain percentage of Japanese products to be made / assembled here in the states.
The EV push .. as you have been told a million times .. comes from and is propped up by billions of US tax payer dollars. I can think of much better things for us to use our tax money on ... :cool:
You don't have to own an EV to have a solar panel. Some have them to keep the group 24 battery charged on their electric property gate , or keep their Motorhome chassis and house battery's up as a connivence, not as first line of power supply.
E-100, E-85, I would call Ethanol based. E-10 is a 10% additive brought to you by the same bureaucrats that are pushing for all electric cars.
There was such a pushback against 10% that they had to offer straight gas, and call it recreation fuel ... instead of just gasoline. Of course they had to throw their little dig in and charge 50% more for selling it "as is" before adding the 10% moonshine . :rolleyes:
If you don't see any of that ... well I'm afraid you are one of those that have been molded into their sheeple .. as long as you spew their propaganda, I will continue to do my part to keep the core values of the United States ever present ... because there are those out there on the fence .. who continue to hear the commie propaganda .. well they might go full tard as well .. and we just can't afford to have more than a couple dummies amongst us ... :cheers:
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Speakin of dummies .... :)
Only a dummy would post in big letters GAS CARS ARE MORE LIKELY TO CATCH FIRE !
Then post (I won't copy and paste, I like my computer too much) name brand and reason for the fire.
Wait for it ......
#1) Hyundi (gas car) Electrical fire :eek:
#2) KIA (gas car) Electrical fire :eek:
#3) Honda (gas car) Electrical fire :eek:
#4) Hyundi (gas car) Electric over hydraulic abs brake system fire :eek:
#5, 6, 7, 8) ( EV ) Battery fires :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
#9) (a McLaren) in last place ..... had a gas leak. :rolleyes:
Thanks CRUM, once again ... :thumbsup:
Stick with Fords and Chevies .. powered by gasoline or diesel ..
the facts speak for themselves .... :cheers:
It doesn't have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryConn
Buried under a mountain of hopes and dreams, there remain numbers. Numbers that can be found, and calculated, and BS tests performed. All you have to do is ask.
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Cudes mate... I have never been anything but civil and polite to you while standing ground on the numbers, or asking for your own personal take on other people's words that you keep pasting. So the vulgar and profane PM you sent me last night was a bit of a shock, and of course it was deleted before I ever read it. If you ever want to discuss information or engage in polite or friendly discourse, that door is always open. Also, If you actually know Shaun (or is it Sean?) from the Vision Hellkat group, there are questions we could have you ask them, that we could run some calculations on and gain some deeper insights into just what new ground they broke, or just re used existing technology in a fanciful way, while remaining within the physical limits we already know.
-Peter
my head hurts from all the reading! But I agree with you. Let's just say that I lean right on most issues. I just find that arguing with the left thinking types is a waste of my time.Quote:
Originally Posted by pcrussell50
First of all Gary, good on you for at least trying to read this stuff and get to the bottom of it. You are that much better off for it, mentally and physically. It's like exercise. It may suck in a way, but the effort is good for you. For any of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryConn;[URL="tel:3377100"
Second, we all have our political leanings and biases. Left, right, forward, back, bent over, whatever. The beauty of science and numbers is that they don't lie, they don't lean, they don't have bias.
With just a little skill and application, maths is our greatest tool for seeing truth.
Here's an example:
If you look at this 30s video ad from Four Winns, you would think, "Sweet, the era of battery boating is upon us! I'll just replace my petro boat with that!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbO9_YpvJSI
Well. Maybe. Maybe not. Here's where the math comes in.
They use the Vision Marine, 180hp-E-Motion engine and battery package. The only planing hull battery power package that I know of that is actually available. (Well, not available to you and me. Only to OEMs). According to Vision Marine's own web site, the battery package stores 70KWh at full charge. (That is just a hair over TWO gallons of gasoline worth, BTW.) That means it can put out 70KW, (which is 93 hp), for one hour, because one KW is 1.341 hp. Or (using round numbers) the 180 hp motor rating (to get you your 35 mph) for half an hour, from 100% charge, to dead in the water, leaving nothing for idling back and docking, and presuming a brand new battery that has not degraded, like they all do over time. The Four Winns marketing guy in this video,* says he reached 35 mph, and that was with just him in it. Would 35 mph for 20 minutes, so you have enough left over to idle back to the dock and up onto the trailer, meet your needs? Would you pay 50% more for it than a 250hp petro motor on the same hull, that can run all day? The petro version of the same hull (according to Four Winns own web site) can carry ten people and some gear. With 1000lb worth of batteries, do you think the battery boat with the same hull, will be able to do the same? Maybe. Four Winns isn't saying, but I have my doubts.
*Also, in the second promo video that I linked, the Four Winns bloke said, it comes with a "70 kilowatt battery", which is nonsense, because kilowatts are units of power, like horsepower. If he understood electric power and the product he is trying to sell, he would have said, "70 kilowatt hours", which are units of energy storage... 70 kilowatts of power for one hour = 70 KWh. A little sketchy that an otherwise polished promo video was allowed to be released to the public with such a mistake. It could easily have been fixed with a short retake... If anyone at Four Winns had the basic science knowledge to understand their mistake.
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Finally, if you can indulge a numbers bloke in a little idle speculation... They say they will be selling these in summer 2023. But they have no specs other than the 35-40mph top speed in their promo videos. Nothing in the "build my boat" tab, nothing about pre-orders, and frankly, would you pre-order if you didn't know anything about it? I'm not much of a businessman, but I am starting to have doubts as to whether they really will be selling these things by summer 2023. Some of you guys have some business skills. What do you think?
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Good to know that I might not be the only one. I hope that is the case. Because I was actually a little insulted and hurt that someone would be so vulgar and profane to me when I had not been that way to him. And that was just the subject line. Obviously, I didn't read the rest of the message, or even open it. It sent it straight to the trash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz;[URL="tel:3377114"
Thanks for your input.
-Peter
so i converted my 100kw ski boat to electric....
got 100kw electric motor
got my 100kwh battery out of a tesla, 1000lbs should let me ski for an hour
now it wont get on the plane....
We'll dial up the boost on the Virado and feed it H from renew power and water at the dock.
methanol is the cheap green fuel of the future.
castor oil is renewable...
the future green engine sounds like a 2 stroke...
It's still carbon based... You know, the environment