15 400R news

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rayzor

I'm not parroting anyone Chaz,

---

I don't remember naming names , but since you stepped up to the plate .. :p
Seem's to me , everyone is into these hull mounted pick-up's ... so you should measure the coefficiency of drag of the skeg on the std 3.0 / 3.2L sporty and the 400 skeg and get back to me .... :rolleyes:

A pretty sharp cookie told me .. overhub prop's on big cat's are yesterdays news . Big hub extends the gear case and they go faster ... so much for case drag ... If you dont know how to use a air board , I'll be more than happy to learn ya , and you wont even ruin your nail polish ... :D

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...pswj9fjvdf.jpg

CuzinDavieQuips:

Quote:

---

Rayzor. please quit picking on Chaz. he is very old and grumpy. his boat has not ran in 2 years. it is very hot in Palm City Fl.

---

Now Davie , you know how ******* sensitive I am .... :rolleyes:
Don't worry , I'll be out soon enough crackin yo azz , just like the old days ... :p
But first I have some really neat projects to complete . I gave my word , that comes first !

OneTimeNote's :

Quote:

---

Chaz and Dale seem to have a deep rooted.......something, just not sure what it is!

---

LMAO ... It's a complicated system of check's and balances .... :D

I had lunch with a couple of "company men" . I waited till after they ordered to open a can of my southern charm on them . It seem's like they like the idea of being the "performance company" , they really frown on selling a performance motor and have to cover it under wty. They know all to well that Yamaha has twenty four strokes to one Merc anything out in the ocean fishing , in the backcountry or at the sand bar. yet that's where they want to focus their efforts at. And they bank on their ( Detroit's ) old pitch of ... win on Sunday , sell on Monday , by having the Mac daddy 400 sitting on top of the hill .
When I asked ... So by having a 400 in the showroom , that's gonna make a guy buy a pair of 200 four strokes to go out and fish amongst a sea of Yamaha's .. they said something about passing the salt and pepper .
Hot rod stuff , We had six 280 long blocks on the shelf for almost a year. I finally made a friend a good deal on all of them , just to take them away . Racers just keep patching stuff back together , none of them want to buy new . I said , your a working man . Could you afford to buy new motor's or powerheads a couple times a year , or a couple every few years .. No me either . There's only one "Dale" for every 100 family guys living week to week. They want to play too , you already own the tooling , the tolerance stacking is horrendous , you could build and sell a "entry level" 250HP motor for under 9K all day long and make money . By the time we wty 3 powerheads , how much have we made ? How much do you think we make on a pair of 1650's ?
I made em buy me a slice of Key Lime , before going back to finish welding this Opti can .... :thumbsup:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...psroe1gxli.jpg

Did you tell them, "well bless your heart"? Always adds a special touch!

I made em buy me a slice of Key Lime , before going back to finish welding this Opti can .... :thumbsup:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...psroe1gxli.jpg[/QUOTE]

Is that one of them there Eagle One cans? ;-)

Well I said **** it today and am going forward with the 400. I may really hate it and piss $30k away but am going to give it a shot. Without the Latham side steer stuff, trim pump, slide master 6" , oil reservoir, sea strainer, and going to light weight battery I'm hoping to shave 100lbs but who knows maybe I'll blow it over.. I've been advised against this by people a lot smarter than me but I figure what the **** I will play ball. Worse case it sucks I hate it and I liquidate it

That's the spirit! Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chaz

I don't remember naming names , but since you stepped up to the plate .. :p
Seem's to me , everyone is into these hull mounted pick-up's ... so you should measure the coefficiency of drag of the skeg on the std 3.0 / 3.2L sporty and the 400 skeg and get back to me .... :rolleyes:

A pretty sharp cookie told me .. overhub prop's on big cat's are yesterdays news . Big hub extends the gear case and they go faster ... so much for case drag ... If you dont know how to use a air board , I'll be more than happy to learn ya , and you wont even ruin your nail polish ... :D

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...pswj9fjvdf.jpg

CuzinDavieQuips:


Now Davie , you know how ******* sensitive I am .... :rolleyes:
Don't worry , I'll be out soon enough crackin yo azz , just like the old days ... :p
But first I have some really neat projects to complete . I gave my word , that comes first !

OneTimeNote's :


LMAO ... It's a complicated system of check's and balances .... :D

I had lunch with a couple of "company men" . I waited till after they ordered to open a can of my southern charm on them . It seem's like they like the idea of being the "performance company" , they really frown on selling a performance motor and have to cover it under wty. They know all to well that Yamaha has twenty four strokes to one Merc anything out in the ocean fishing , in the backcountry or at the sand bar. yet that's where they want to focus their efforts at. And they bank on their ( Detroit's ) old pitch of ... win on Sunday , sell on Monday , by having the Mac daddy 400 sitting on top of the hill .
When I asked ... So by having a 400 in the showroom , that's gonna make a guy buy a pair of 200 four strokes to go out and fish amongst a sea of Yamaha's .. they said something about passing the salt and pepper .
Hot rod stuff , We had six 280 long blocks on the shelf for almost a year. I finally made a friend a good deal on all of them , just to take them away . Racers just keep patching stuff back together , none of them want to buy new . I said , your a working man . Could you afford to buy new motor's or powerheads a couple times a year , or a couple every few years .. No me either . There's only one "Dale" for every 100 family guys living week to week. They want to play too , you already own the tooling , the tolerance stacking is horrendous , you could build and sell a "entry level" 250HP motor for under 9K all day long and make money . By the time we wty 3 powerheads , how much have we made ? How much do you think we make on a pair of 1650's ?
I made em buy me a slice of Key Lime , before going back to finish welding this Opti can .... :thumbsup:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...psroe1gxli.jpg

---

I don't know who's running transom pickups, as Mercury voids the warranty if you run them - this is what I was told by the owner of the Skater 318 w/ 400Rs that Mercury dialed-in. The boat you posted a picture of isn't running them either. I doubt anybody is going to start drilling gearcases and plumbing external hardware when they know their $25k motor will no longer have a warranty. As for dragging a big gearcase, come on Chaz, get real, you know it scrubs speed. Mercury SSM drives and all shaft style surface drives are on ALL the fastest raceboats around the world - period. And the top dogs (v-drive hydros - GPH/UH and TAH/TFH) have nothing but a spinning shaft that the prop mounts to - no external drive housing other than a strut log. Another example of a big surfacing gearcase that didn't work well is Mercury's NXT drive - which is no longer in production after a short run. Most every boat they put those drives on didn't handle well and wasn't fast.

Dale, Actually they did add hull pick ups to the 32' wide body at Grants Custom rigging. I had looked at the cut away for the lower unit at the boat show and was trying to figure out where you can do it. The only place was towards the front of crescent up high about 2inches down in the water cavity where the water travels up. They did see an increase in speed as I am told the boat runs 108 all day any day now. What sucks is that if done properly and set up properly the hull pick ups will provide a reliable water flow for the motors. Just like all the inboard boats. In speaking with the guys from Mercury Racing when I with them I think the concern was more about heat in the case and running it on the surface. I believe at some point we may see something down the line.
If I was going to go to 400's I would do it in heartbeat.
FYI there is another 308 getting 400s now at TNT in Miami. Should see something on OSO soon.
Boat is scheduled to be done by the 15th this month.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Onetime

Did you tell them, "well bless your heart"? Always adds a special touch!

---

I see you speak fluent "Hillbilly" ... :D My daughter in law is from Kannapolis N.C. so that's used quite often in her dialect ... ;)
Being a native , I'm more Florida krakka ... :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Onetime :Is that one of them there Eagle One cans? ;-)

---

Bless your heart .... http://smileys.on-my-web.com/reposit...se-bow-005.gif

Quote:

---

Well I said **** it today and am going forward with the 400. I may really hate it and piss $30k away but am going to give it a shot. Without the Latham side steer stuff, trim pump, slide master 6" , oil reservoir, sea strainer, and going to light weight battery I'm hoping to shave 100lbs but who knows maybe I'll blow it over.. I've been advised against this by people a lot smarter than me but I figure what the **** I will play ball. Worse case it sucks I hate it and I liquidate it

---

Aggi , Run a beam across the ceiling , hang all dozen or so of your motor's from chain hoist's like there sides of beef ..... ;)
I like how people who have never done what your doing , tell you how it's gonna turn out ....http://smileys.on-my-web.com/reposit...ng/lol-022.gif
Even if your not happy with the package in some way , I have no doubt you will find just the right hull to make that motor happy ... or vise versa . Certainly not a waste of money .

Quote:

---

My BFF : I don't know who's running transom pickups, as Mercury voids the warranty if you run them - this is what I was told by the owner of the Skater 318 w/ 400Rs that Mercury dialed-in. The boat you posted a picture of isn't running them either. I doubt anybody is going to start drilling gearcases and plumbing external hardware when they know their $25k motor will no longer have a warranty. As for dragging a big gearcase, come on Chaz, get real, you know it scrubs speed. Mercury SSM drives and all shaft style surface drives are on ALL the fastest raceboats around the world - period. And the top dogs (v-drive hydros - GPH/UH and TAH/TFH) have nothing but a spinning shaft that the prop mounts to - no external drive housing other than a strut log. Another example of a big surfacing gearcase that didn't work well is Mercury's NXT drive - which is no longer in production after a short run. Most every boat they put those drives on didn't handle well and wasn't fast.

---

Well the picture of the Red/White DW was posted in reference to propeller's . My reference to low water pickups was mentioned as being a current rage ... I can go back and highlight it for you if need be ... :rolleyes:

Wty racers ? Kinda stuck with what they offer .... :o So you guys like to bad mouth the 400's , weight , power etc. Yet you go buy a (pair) of 300xs . Sell the mid , clamp , cowl . for pennies on the dollar . Buy a 280 clamp , Todd / Johnny 15" can , Climax / Nass carbon cowl , Flash the Motorola , shorty ex snout . How's the wty work on that unit ?

So the lowers are like the Goodyear blimp compared to the 3.0 based unit . You do know that the blimp will bolt up to your mid ... don't ya ? You know half of a 1/4" is an 1/8" inch .. you really that good you would pass the blindfold test ... How they say it out there .. Like No way dudddeee :nonod:

Is it a fishin motor with some racin stripes . Of course it is . Do guys turn the key to start a running motor , that you cant hear running . Of course they do . Do they coke up the oil on the common wall between the oil bag and ex log . Of course they do .
Is there room inside the mid for a double wall stainless boom tube . Of course there is . Is there room inside the crank case for that Pee-Wee Herman rotating assy to grow . Of course there is ... Do we already have a 15" can tacked up in the jig ..... You aint gettin my pooww krakka azz fired ... :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

Depends whether or not boat can handle the weight. IMO the 400r will smoke the 300xs.
My vote would be for a 15" 300x.

---

I told him to run the 15" X a year ago-With Glenns personal money farm producing the way it does he should have a dozen X strokers and X big bore strokers set up and ready to bolt on as soon as the last one blows up.... I wouldn't want to be the one that had chop the throttle in that Argo with 700 pounds waiting to drop the tail and pop the nose- Make sure you spend some money on a good lifejacket and Kevlar suit is my advise...

Joe

Chaz, thanks for the good laugh so early in the morning!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JPEROG

With Glenns personal money farm producing the way it does he should have a dozen X strokers and X big bore strokers set up and ready to bolt on as soon as the last one blows up....

Joe

---

You must be mistaken me for somebody else, I'm a poor construction worker.

If a xs is a proven platform on this rig, 505 lbs, add Latham setup 38 lbs, trim pump 18 lbs, oil resevoir 10 lbs, battery moved or light weight 45 lbs, Slidemaster to bobs 20 lbs. Well that's 131 lbs out of the ass end of the boat.

Ditching the sea strainer and hoses could shed about 10lbs

Also Argo has different rigging spots glasses it to easily push tanks midship, have no idea what this will do.

300xs and rigging - 505 + 131 = 636
20" 400r = 668

32 lbs isn't a huge difference, dump strainer its about 22 lbs..

Will I break Adams #s probably not, but I'd like something that accelerate hard, runs good and starts every time I turn the key.. The xs will do all this but its old technology about to be NLA.

I had an x I bought complete that actually was "lost" or stolen from old dominion freight

Poor const. workers don't go out and buy 27K new outboards for their new hulls. We run old junk that gets pieced together on old hulls, with outdated stuff that's affordable to us but has a proven track record. If it doesn't work then we go back and tweak on the old stuff a little bit more until we reach a happy point. I hope this 400 gets you to the happy level so that I can work something out with you on the old junk that you won't be needing anymore LOL..



Just don't want to see anyone get hurt. I have reservations about what I am doing to my 24 hull but it weighs over twice what you are flirting with, and if it does huff up then you will most likely come out the side with the way you are positioned in that cockpit. I think you should be setting up a meet with Steve and Adam's old boat to do a comparison when this thing gets rigged up. How is it that you will be able to eliminate the remote pick up and strainer if you want to run the case at the same level or close to what you know works with the XS?

Joe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JPEROG

Poor const. workers don't go out and buy 27K new outboards for their new hulls. We run old junk that get pieced together on old hulls, with outdated stuff that's affordable to us but has a proven track record. If it doesn't work then we go back and tweak on the old stuff a little bit more until we reach a happy point. I hope this 400 gets you to the happy level so that I can work something out with you on the old junk that you won't be needing anymore LOL..



Just don't want to see anyone get hurt. I have reservations about what I am doing to my 24 hull but it weighs over twice what you are flirting with, and if it does huff up then you will most likely come out the side with the way you are positioned in that cockpit. I think you should be setting up a meet with Steve and Adam's old boat to do a comparison when this thing gets rigged up. How is it that you will be able to eliminate the remote pick up and strainer if you want to run the case at the same level or close to what you know works with the XS?

Joe

---

I'm going to get rid of strained and use pushlok hoses or one braided like in other Argo from PU to bulkhead another bulkhead to lower.

Why are u so inclined to believe 30-50lbs is going to cause me to blow over or catastrophic consequences. I Dont even have the room here in NJ or PA to run WOT for but a mile or so

I cannot remember how much u said the weight was on the argo
remember u had it laid up ultra light over normal
and some of the motor math I don't understand
both motors will have steering helm with hoses to motor
so just the weight of the ram for the xs
both motors have a jack plate
battery , trim pump and resevoir is 2-5' forward inside the hull
so id guess there is a bit more over the transom than u think but don't matter
as the lighter hull will be different already to "cg out"
being safe is different than getting it to stay down late in evening on glass
to going across a lake/bay and hitting a roller with bow too light
will like to see results also so ill say the same to be safe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aggiestckl

I'm going to get rid of strained and use pushlok hoses or one braided like in other Argo from PU to bulkhead another bulkhead to lower.

Why are u so inclined to believe 30-50lbs is going to cause me to blow over or catastrophic consequences. I Dont even have the room here in NJ or PA to run WOT for but a mile or so

---

You are taking weight out of the boat to compensate for the weight gain of the motor, but you are still adding approximately 150#s hanging back off the transom. That is going to cause a MAJOR shift in CG of the boat. I have "been there, done that" with cg changes on my 28s. Adding 190#s to the back of a 28 makes a noticeable change in the way the boat drives. And a 28 is 5' longer and weighs more than double what your boat weighs. I know you're not going to listen to anybody, but what you are putting together is going to be a dangerous rig. Just please get yourself a full open-cockpit Lifeline setup (ballistic shorts, chute jacket w/ leg restraints, helmet restraints, full face helmet), so that if you do go on your head at 125+, you might live. We lost a guy in April that went through the lights at 146mph - and he had all his safety gear on. When you start running big #s and crash, bad things can happen........