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05-10-2016, 08:22 PM
Rayzor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

Dale,
I cannot comment on what boats run up north or other parts of the country as there are differences what us S. FL guys have been seeing all along regarding speeds where we live.
I agree on video documentation and am sure he will post some. I have seen videos of 30' Skaters running. However the videos I have seen are them running in the mid 90's with people, fuel etc in S. Fl.
Never seen any videos of any running 104mph besides mine! I agree with you 100 percent videos are the best documentation but there are still variables due to conditions and locations. I think in this case that maybe the supercharged motor does not fall off in HP like a two stroke based conditions that we see down here. Maybe that is why the spread was higher than 10mph???
Again was just trying to share what I saw and maybe help someone make a better decision on whats best for them regarding these motors.
Let me ask you though. Do you not agree that a classic deck 308 is lighter than Steve's boat at 5500lbs. I did the math on mine based on what Peter told me and came up with about 4600lbs.
I would bet a bunch of money Steve's boat w/300xs's would have trouble breaking a 100mph it ran 114mph. Sam Jirik is a friend of mine and his 30' Skater runs mid 90s on a normal day another flat deck with wraparound windshield. Nothing close to 104mph. No one ever said this boat ran 120mph. I do think if I decided to go the 400r route down the road with my set up and doing the math it is possible that my 308 would be very close to running 120 with an additional 140hp. I run 108-110 with 2 people/60 gallons fuel/coolers/tool boxe etc and not done yet. Waiting on some bigger pitch props from Dave.
I guess only time and the truth will tell.
Problem with these forums is there is always lots of big numbers and very little documentation like we do. I only believe a small amount of what I read and take that into consideration.
You and I both know in the end it is HP/Weight/Set up = MPH. Simple is that. How you get it to the water is the tough part.

Hey Ron, I agree with a lot of what you say, as my buddy's 30 was a mid 95-97mph boat every day. He liked to run Bravo 1s on it, which weren't as fast as the 3 blade 32" cleavers it came with from Ocean Outboard (the props it ran 104 best with two guys on board and light on fuel). I had nothing to do with the boat seeing 104, that was with it setup the way it came (1.5" above, spinning in). Yes, we all know conditions CAN be really good out here, w/ cda of around 500' or so. But there are plenty of days also that it is 100+ degrees and we lose speed just like you guys do back East. I agree that Steve's 318 is running VERY good for what it is, but also realize that Mercury had that boat for a while, and there's no telling how they've got it running 114mph. Time will tell how these 400Rs really outperform the XS and X motors, as more guys start repowering and giving honest data on before and after. I'll never repower with them, as they're way too heavy to hang on the back of a 28 - it would ruin the boat. I would think you have no plans of repowering either, as I don't think they'd gain enough over your X motors to be worth the hassle. Plus, your 30 also wouldn't get over bigger water as well as it does now with the lightweight 470 # X motors. You've got a great setup, I'd personally leave it just the way it is! :cheers:
05-10-2016, 08:28 PM
Rayzor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaz

I'll go head an dispute it .... just because that's what he would expect from me , and I'd hate to disappoint ... http://smileys.on-my-web.com/reposit...ng/lol-022.gif

Of course you are going to dispute it, because that's just what you do! :rolleyes: I'm surprised you haven't jumped on one of my hydro threads saying we have magic water/air out here, and that's the only reason we've got the quickest open boat in the country. I'm the only guy that posts videos and timeslips to back up all my boat's performance #s, so your disputes only humor me at this point Chaz! ;)
05-11-2016, 07:54 AM
Double Rigged

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayzor

Hey Ron, I agree with a lot of what you say, as my buddy's 30 was a mid 95-97mph boat every day. He liked to run Bravo 1s on it, which weren't as fast as the 3 blade 32" cleavers it came with from Ocean Outboard (the props it ran 104 best with two guys on board and light on fuel). I had nothing to do with the boat seeing 104, that was with it setup the way it came (1.5" above, spinning in). Yes, we all know conditions CAN be really good out here, w/ cda of around 500' or so. But there are plenty of days also that it is 100+ degrees and we lose speed just like you guys do back East. I agree that Steve's 318 is running VERY good for what it is, but also realize that Mercury had that boat for a while, and there's no telling how they've got it running 114mph. Time will tell how these 400Rs really outperform the XS and X motors, as more guys start repowering and giving honest data on before and after. I'll never repower with them, as they're way too heavy to hang on the back of a 28 - it would ruin the boat. I would think you have no plans of repowering either, as I don't think they'd gain enough over your X motors to be worth the hassle. Plus, your 30 also wouldn't get over bigger water as well as it does now with the lightweight 470 # X motors. You've got a great setup, I'd personally leave it just the way it is! :cheers:

Dale we are on the same page. The posts I made were 100 percent accurate. I run my set ups for everyday and could care less about the big number. Just to be clear so that anyone thinking about a repower the gains we saw are REAL. I drove the boat myself to 109mph. The owner of this cat has had big boats. He has had a 145mph Outerlimits and many Skaters as well.
He is not going about this blind. I am not trying to defend him or the boat. I believe when he is done this boat will see over 115mph under good conditions and set up.
You are also correct that in comparison to the 300x it is a really tough call. The speeds and acceleration runs are very close thus far. Only time will tell if they can take advantage of the extra HP and figure out how to make it run.
But you have to agree with my set up if you add 140hp it would have to bring at least 6-8 mph. That would put my boat at least 118mph. I have done weight calculations and see about a 200 lbs increase versus what i have when you back out the steering/oil tanks etc. Problem is for most the 300x is not readily available and not for everyone. If I had a heavy big boat for twins and were thinking about repowering it is good choice IMO.

Lastly to add I have a customer with a 29' DCB deck boat that recently got repowered. I spoke to him yesterday. The customer specified the boat be tested like he uses it which is full of fuel and all the trimmings. Boat ran 91-92 with 300xs's. With the 400r's it has run a best of 103-104mph. They believe with a little more set up and prop work it will run 105mph. They have not run the Mercury 10k cleavers that are on Steve's boat. This is first hand information.
05-11-2016, 07:56 AM
Chaz

Dale , go back and look at the map , if you don't understand the parallel line's , I'll be happy to explain it to you .

Quickest ? Go to Augusta Ga. they will edge-uh- ma-cate ya , for just the price of a tech card .
I like how you guys get a 60 mph head start at the ..ahhh .. starting line , and call yourself quick .. :nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod::nonod:
Your MPH is way off of the ET ... Just for grins . Put your nose one the "starting line" and see what it really goes .. ;)
BTW , dont you run one of them "index" classes .. ?
I get great enjoyment reading your ...... claim's .... carry on !
05-11-2016, 08:54 AM
Rayzor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

Dale we are on the same page. The posts I made were 100 percent accurate. I run my set ups for everyday and could care less about the big number. Just to be clear so that anyone thinking about a repower the gains we saw are REAL. I drove the boat myself to 109mph. The owner of this cat has had big boats. He has had a 145mph Outerlimits and many Skaters as well.
He is not going about this blind. I am not trying to defend him or the boat. I believe when he is done this boat will see over 115mph under good conditions and set up.
You are also correct that in comparison to the 300x it is a really tough call. The speeds and acceleration runs are very close thus far. Only time will tell if they can take advantage of the extra HP and figure out how to make it run.
But you have to agree with my set up if you add 140hp it would have to bring at least 6-8 mph. That would put my boat at least 118mph. I have done weight calculations and see about a 200 lbs increase versus what i have when you back out the steering/oil tanks etc. Problem is for most the 300x is not readily available and not for everyone. If I had a heavy big boat for twins and were thinking about repowering it is good choice IMO.

Lastly to add I have a customer with a 29' DCB deck boat that recently got repowered. I spoke to him yesterday. The customer specified the boat be tested like he uses it which is full of fuel and all the trimmings. Boat ran 91-92 with 300xs's. With the 400r's it has run a best of 103-104mph. They believe with a little more set up and prop work it will run 105mph. They have not run the Mercury 10k cleavers that are on Steve's boat. This is first hand information.

We are in agreement Ron! Where I am still such a non-believer in these motors bringing outboards to the forefront for big boats is that the speeds they are getting out of all of these boats is still subpar imo. I personally wouldn't own a big, heavy boat that barely runs over 100mph with normal conditions. So to me, inboards are still the only way to go on bigger/heavier boats. The 32DW/400Rs is the only rig so far that is very close to being a setup that I could see myself owning. And to answer your question, yes, I don't doubt your 30 would run well into the teens with a pair of 400Rs, but would it be worth it?
05-11-2016, 02:06 PM
Chaz

Dale , let me come right out and say it .... I'm terribly hurt . :D
I go well out of my way to show you that your no better or faster than anyone else , thru atmospheric conditions with pictures no less . And all you can do is call names and speak of your liberal art's degree .. what a waste of your parents money ... :nonod:

You brought up hydro racing , not me . Well actually , you speak of being the fastest ... exhibition .. ?????
LOL ... pretty tough class since there is no one you actually race against ... :rolleyes:
Well , in Augusta there would be plenty of boat to race ... But then you'd have to win or set a class record to claim to be the fastest ;)
Judging from your knee jerk reaction , you been , got whooped and now your ego wont let you go back .. I get it . Wanna know how I won 5 championships ... by gettin stomped by the best in the world . That's how ya get good :thumbsup:

All I really wanted to know how would it run if you were timed from where you actually started from .. ?????
It's not that difficult of a question . I'm sure you know the speed and distance , should be easy for a collage boy to cypher ... :cheers:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...pstfxa6r26.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbklQpOZlTc
05-11-2016, 02:23 PM
Chaz

Well back to the topic ... :thumbsup:
A big part of the weight comes from the pan and the mounting plate / swivel pin . Gotta be 150 pounds right there ... well not for long .. ;) :D

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...psjwcfuc9r.jpg
05-11-2016, 04:38 PM
Chaz

It's just a reference mark . ET , speed , just another 9/16 's in the tool box .
Ohhhh , I see , your bent about the "duce" on the board . I cant help it . the track put it up there ... ;)
Ya know they say , you can see those score boards from the space station , makes it hard to hide what it really runs .. :)
Idiot , stupid , they teach you that in prep school .. ? Or is it your ability to think and respond to what's in front of you .. maxed out :thumbsup:
Don't worry , I wont lose it and post the picture of you crawling up the tunnel .. :p

For the record , I'm sure your friends 300xs 30' boat went 104 . I was kidding with Ron , about disputing it .
I'm sure you know (well maybe not) that if he and NastyBug brought their hooptie's here in the Tropic's , that they would run in the 90's like Ron said . Make's no difference to me if you believe it . Just keep posting whatever speeds you want .. just stay out of the jungle if you cant handle the truth ... :D
05-11-2016, 06:01 PM
tux974

Guys, guys how about we do what we love and love what we do safely and without personal attacks...:thumbsup:
05-11-2016, 06:14 PM
AZMIDLYF

I'll stick to the desert myself but, do you really think that you can pull 150LBs out these 400Rs Chaz?
05-11-2016, 06:33 PM
Rayzor

Quote:

Originally Posted by tux974

Guys, guys how about we do what we love and love what we do safely and without personal attacks...:thumbsup:

You're right Tony, I've deleted my posts. But you know I've dealt with this for a long time now. He is the type of guy that pushes guys like me away from the boards........
05-11-2016, 07:46 PM
Chaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF

I'll stick to the desert myself but, do you really think that you can pull 150LBs out these 400Rs Chaz?

I was kinda amazed at the size , weight and exercise in engineering that went into the Verado line .
Just look at the size of those end cap bolts ... LOL
That's one of them 20 oz coffee cups that the swivel pin / bracket is dwarfing .. all that stuff is crazy heavy .
The pan is actually the top motor mount . They gave me pretty much free reign to try a few different ways of going about it .
But sitting there going , need this , nope don't need that , or that either , is making for a big pile of heavy azz stuff .
The stick mid drag race stuff is over 100 pounds lighter than conventional factory parts.
I'll go out on a limb and say we are going to do away with 100 pounds minimum if everything fits together as planned. I like the challenge of this kind of thing ... :thumbsup:

Desert .. huh ? Ya gotta change prop's to run on that stuff .. ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhsct3YavxQ

Quote:

He is the type of guy that

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
05-11-2016, 07:52 PM
powerabout

that pan and mount has a lot to do with NVH which outboards never really thought about in the past
05-11-2016, 09:27 PM
AZMIDLYF

100 lbs...that will help trim its girth.

I've seen that Glamis vid...car is rediculous!
05-12-2016, 05:45 AM
tux974

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayzor

You're right Tony, I've deleted my posts. But you know I've dealt with this for a long time now. He is the type of guy that pushes guys like me away from the boards........

Dale, good deal buddy!
That is what I'm trying to prevent. We all lose when good and smart guys walk away!
Chaz, is also a good and talented guy with a huge heart (I think) :D but loves to push buttons from time to time.....:eek::D
I'm positive you guys would get along perfectly in person!.....:thumbsup:

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