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Make no mistake Pilgrim . Baffle me with bullsh-t all you want . i would back either one of them against anyone in the world. They worked with Duckworth and were dubbed “ A Pair of Bright Lads” by him , you cannot imagine how high that praise was .Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
I grew up thinking--'THERE AIN'T NO SUBSTITUTE FOR CUBIC INCHES'---Quote:
Originally Posted by jackiewilson
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And then we discovered a SUBSTITUTE---Quote:
Originally Posted by GENE LANHAM
CUBIC DOLLARS
LYCOMING
RACE FUEL---KEROSINE
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HP = Torque x RPM, the importance of torque in a non-shifting vehicle. As I humbly understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackiewilson
Operating with only a single gear is, one of the dilemmas of a race boat setup not found in cars. Without shifting to a higher gear, the boat is confined to a compromise of acceleration or top end speed.
In the chart, the boat is not able to shift to higher gears, thus not able to maximize utilizing the engine’s rising horsepower curve. Therefore prop selection is upmost a vital decision. The wrong prop pitch and smaller diameter, will increase RPM (spinning your tires) and lower the Torque value, in application and in the formula HP = Torque x RPM.
Torque = Force (HP) x Radius Distance (propeller or engine’s connecting rod wrist pin to crankshaft’s center).
Therefore without the benefit of shifting to higher gears in a boat’s application, the Torque value is more important in the boat’s setup equation, than in an automobile.
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Lots of combos tried in offshore but till the Lambo v12 nothing could make enough torque so our favorite Chev that came out first pretty much outlived them all till now
Remember diesels, 1.5 cap bonus when boosted, couldnt get on the plane then got gears then got banned
( ok QC4v is a bit more modern and lots of other stuff)
GREG , i need help, i replied in a long and meaningful manner to the lake x kids post and its blocked me posting, can you do anything . Jack.
i answered this in great detail but unfortunately it go blocked .Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake X Kid
Lake x kid
let me summarize your post for the others...
how much torque you have at 5252 is the real story
take 2 800hp engines but different.
One has hp peak at 6000rpm (with a torque peak of about 800ftlbs at 5252) the other at 11000rpm so at 5252 the 11000 engine has 400hp and about 400ftlbs if its lucky, wont pull the skin off a rice pudding...
it would make a good outboard though...
Please tell me nobody was going to put a 1.5ltr BMW F1 engine in a class 1 boat coz they are 1000hp?
I seem to recall HP= torque x RPM/5252. so your 800 ft-lb engine would have 800 HP @ 5252 and 600HP @ 6000RPM ? . your other engine then would have 400HP at 5252. Me thinks w/o actual HP or torque curves your just blowing smoke. I know Jackie is for sure blowing smoke.
...he's been down on compression for a while now...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
Powerboat and Rotary John, thinks for the replies. I am still digesting your information with some Gatorade.
Hopefully the sage from Britain will stop blowing smoke (and fix those leaky piston rings). And then he can clarify the HP vs Torque controversy. I mean heck, I stuck my neck out there.
Jackie if you are low on Compression, try drinking some Gatorade. The University of Florida developed the beverage, as an energy (hydrating) drink for their student athletics.
This should boost his compression...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake X Kid
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...well i'll be a monkey's uncle...i knew that boat was unusually fast for some reason...now we know why...:rolleyes:
Somebody is going to blow a head gasket, And I do not think it will be boat# 2.
But maybe its driver's extra-high compression might.
Beware of the coming prop-wash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob V
with that formula you know a 3.5 ltr F1 engine ( at twice the rpm) cant do the job of a 8.1 ltr v8 even if they have the same HP number, its all about the torque in a heavy boatQuote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
OK< HERE GOES. I am not an engineer and never have or pretended to be . All i have is a fundamental understanding of the internal combustion engine and a modicum of common sense.
So it comes as a surprise to me that all my brainy friends out there who pontificate loudly on the differentials in RPM AND TORQUE ? Seem to have so little respect for CAMS !
Now you can take all the torque in the world, but it dont mean a damn thing unless you tie into the right motor, with the cam suited to its purpose. With the correct gear ratios to suit the prop, that is the correct diameter and pitch To the set up.
Let me give you a simple example.
We had been running the cosworth in Europe for three months, quite successfully i may add. Gradually getting it up to near the 125 mph mark. The whole set up was about right, we were running with the factory motors.
This was only ever going to be a short term programme (one season). Bedford DAVEY wanted to see the boat run in Parker, so he paid for the boat to be shipped out there .
Ian Hawkins, Malcolm Tyrell, Keith Duckworth and i went to Havasu to test the boat, just to make sure everything was Tickety Boo.
Damned boat would not even get on plane . Wallowed around like a beached whale. turned out that GG and KD had decided to run “Longer gears” in an attempt to make the gearcase last half distance ,
( in the event it went for six and a half of the seven hours, just Couldnt get the gearcase off to change it. THATS WHERE THE OTHER HALF HOUR WENT)
Bob Hetzel chopped a half inch off the diameter, result was an anvil that would have wound its way through concrete and two foot thick logs without fear of ever getting a nick in it. Certainly the ugliest wheel i have ever seen.
Did push the boat up on plane , and run around 120, but it didnt have the grunt out of the turn.
was a case of the right prop, married to the correct gear ratio , from a motor with the right cam to suit the given torque . SIMPLES ???
THANK THE LORD THAT THE OLD FARTS HAVE NOT LOST THEIR SENSE OF HUMOUR. Must confess to laughing out loud this morning when i opened up S+ F.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob V
That must be what the colonials call “FAKE NEWS”. Maybe there is some truth in the Putin rigging elections rumour !,!
Well done Bobby Vee for todays chuckles.
its like this, the transporter that towed your Cosworth tunnel had a v8 with lots of torque, didnt go quite as fast but it did go uphillQuote:
Originally Posted by jackiewilson
Even the California colonials should be up and running by now. Really surprised i haven't been shot down in flames and hung out to dry , what is the matter with you old farts these days.
...well, check out the california news jackie. they are going up in flames themselves, as it seems they have been doing every single summer, for the last 20 years... our west coast has severe drought conditions that never seem to end. they are turning off the electricity too. its nutz out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackiewilson
Hey PILGRIM, its like this. The V8 COSWORTH comes in many Guises, In 1978 it was winning everything and had even surpassed Ferrari in outright Victories in formula 1. The F1 version was pulling over 800 hp and 18000 rpm. Good for a one and a half hour race (maybe) before a rebuild.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
One i had was the Le Mans Version Peaked at 10000 rpm but would run 48 hrs at 85000 giving 400 hp
Indy version was blown and pulling over 1100 hp. so you see its horses for courses.
---On Methanol--2 to 3 BAR??Quote:
Originally Posted by jackiewilson
Jackie: 800 HP @ 18000 RPM = 233 lb-ft of torque
400 HP @ 8000 RPM = 262 lb-ft torque
You didn't say what RPM the indy engine ran but assume 10000 RPM @ 1000 HP = 525 lb-ft torque
So as you can see its all about torque. It's why the diesels are baned all over. 500 HP @ 1500 rpm = 1751 lb-ft of torque.
Clarence Blanchard was defined torque as the effort required to push down a morning hard on to hit the toilet bowel.
Jackie: 800 HP @ 18000 RPM = 233 lb-ft of torque
400 HP @ 8000 RPM = 262 lb-ft torque
You didn't say what RPM the Indy engine ran but assume 10000 RPM @ 1000 HP = 525 lb-ft torque
So as you can see its all about torque. It's why the diesels are baned all over. 500 HP @ 1500 rpm = 1751 lb-ft of torque.
Clarence Blanchard once defined torque as the effort required to push down a morning hard on to hit the toilet bowel.
...boy do i miss that torque...
Some hard facts right there.
You know what guys, Im so glad I was born a simple sort of soul.
im one of those that doesn’t have to look up utube to know what to do with a morning hard on, it always kinda came natural. Never once has it occurred to me to compare it to “TORQUE” REVOLUTIONS or “ HORSEPOWER” . Should any of you ever have problems in that direction, give me a call and I’ll help you all i can.
On reflection, every boat racer I ever knew was legendary in the “Hardon” versus “Torque” debate, examples are , (not in any particular order of merit) Garbrecht— Pruett— Spalding— Percival— Fountain—-. In fact I’m trying very hard to come up with a single boat racer that ever had a problem. In the Torque/Revs/ Horsepower/ Hardon situation? I can’t think any of them ever had a problem!
On a more sombre note, I know a lot of drivers stateside know Andy Elliott , he has been running power boats since he was ten years old and was always a hard charger. Came up through the classes and finished as runner up to John Hill in his first year in Formula one.
Understand he is on a life support machine and a tough decision has to be made in the next few days. Sometimes Life is hard and unjust. This is one of those times.
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Only old farts will remember this Mercury ad. You have to admit, Mercury had OMC beat in the advertising department too, every time.
...cool ad...couldn't agree with you more jack...https://www.screamandfly.com/attachm...1&d=1597746699
Butler was right up there with Joe Swift for a while.
...butler? ...never heard of him...:rolleyes:
Then you must be deaf as a post FUJI !!Quote:
Originally Posted by FUJIMO
Me thinks you need to repost the ROTARY Cosworth. The old fart is getting grumpy again.
...what? the Rotary Jack Cat?...Best damn driver OMC had...;)https://www.screamandfly.com/attachm...8&d=1597621426
The. Old adage i cant believe my eyes comes to mind !Quote:
Originally Posted by FUJIMO