A 496 HO Bravo 1 package is about $35k but bump it up to a Mercury Racing 520 or 540 with an XR drive and you are probably pushing $60k. There’s nothing in between the 425 and the 520.Quote:
Originally Posted by CUDA
A 496 HO Bravo 1 package is about $35k but bump it up to a Mercury Racing 520 or 540 with an XR drive and you are probably pushing $60k. There’s nothing in between the 425 and the 520.Quote:
Originally Posted by CUDA
Call me crazy but I'd go 540 XR , twins definitely.
While I agree you’re also pushing 1200 lbs for that package if I’m not mistaken. 2400 for the twins.Quote:
Originally Posted by FMP
OTOH, find a nice 41 Velocity hull, restore it and drop in a pair of 540 XRs and you would have a nice 90 mph offshore battle wagon on the cheap, relatively speaking.
People will debate the useful interior space with the ob vs io but it's also a matter of clean lines of the hull being disturbed by two or more fatsos hanging off the swim platform. Truthfully wether it goes10+ mph faster with ob I wouldn't care. In that class of boat I still feel big io looks best.
I’ll agree with you that today’s engines are more complicated than those of yesteryear,but what powertrain isn’t? Even lawn mowers and weed eaters aren’t exempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaaaaat
It’s painfully obvious that all manufacturers except BRP chose to go to 4-stroke when the EPA Phase2 regs came around. I applaud the fact that BRP is sticking to their credo of “emissions can be met with a 2-stroke”, and even went so far as to make 4-stroke owners look stupid by making a 30-second commercial where the 4-stroke owner would get kicked or punched in the nuts every step of the way.
https://youtu.be/nWaqOnXlUhI
Ironically, I’m pretty sure that’s how the guys that bought Fichts felt when OMC closed their doors, but I digress.
If it was so easy to build an emissions compliant 2-stroke above 300 HP, wouldn’t BRP have done it by now? I’ve no skin in the game, only what I read here, but the 300 ETEC and 250 HO ETEC seem to perform basically the same, and neither could keep up with a 300 XS, so it stands to reason they won’t hold a candle to the 300R “car motor” as you refer to it. And they nor Caldwell has shown up with anything with the power, price or warranty. It’s all talk or speculation. Like them or not, at least 400R’s and now 450R’s are real things, not just hype. They’re actually running on boats for the public to view and experience.
If you’ve got a better mousetrap, I suggest you build it so that path gets beaten to your door, and I wish anyone that tries it success. If it is easy, everyone would be doing it. I’m pretty sure it’s not an “all ya gotta do is” situation, or it’d already be done.
I cut my teeth on 2-strokes to start my hi-performance engine career, and enjoyed every bit of it, including building competitive engines for IOGP F1, as well as championship winning snowmobile oval, drag race, speed run and hill climb and water-cross engines, so I have a bit of a leg to stand on. If there’s one thing I can swear by, is that there’s two types of 2-strokes: those that have seized, and those that are going to. It’s really hard to keep something that’s full of holes and huge temperature gradients throughout to keep a round bore, and with that, heat rejection, support and lubrication of the piston. It gets worse with higher specific output. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it’s going to take a lot of development and precise tolerances, something that’s not conducive to economic volume production.
So I’m going to say everyone that wants that light, hi-output 2-stroke to lobby the sales department at BRP, because they’re the only ones in the game. If you do convince them to green light that, you may want to suggest also investing in a line of gearcases that will handle everything you’re trying to accomplish, because Merc’s the only game in town for that, too. Good luck with all of that. Maybe if you want to gauge interest, you could start your own poll right here on screamandfly.com. Try to have a price figured out what this will all cost and what people will pay, as this needs to be profitable, too.
Until then, would you mind refraining from threadcrapping in threads that don’t interest you? That’d be appreciated.
All the ballyhoo aside BRP went were the money is, all the **** talk aside if you've ever driven an etec against the four strokes in the working mans engine market....enough said. Merc, Yammy, Zooki, Honder..those motors are about as exciting as paste. But I digress. The Merc 450's? cool as shiz..but about .05% of the scream and fly market will have one....and at 700 lbs the archaic 300 drag will have that ****er for lunch in the drags. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayabusajm
Why is any one talking about 2 strokes on this 450r thread?i understand you die hard 2 stroke guys will never let it down but its over.. The stock hp wars are over and 4 strokes have won. This a 450hp package on 89 pump gas. add a tune for 91 or better yet e85 and i would expect to see 550-600hp. Note the solid prop shaft for this beast to handle the hp. Yes it is heavier but isnt that because its on the verado mid section? Mercury says this engine is based on the 300r which is the same block (minus cams) as a 200hp v8. So slap on the blower, upgrade the cooling and tune it for 550hp and you might still be under 30k. We just need to get our hands on one of the superchargers to start marking coppies (not exact just for fitment). I doubt we will see any hot 2 strokes left on the water in 10 years other than the rare ones which will be considered classics
I couldn’t agree more. It’s going to take people like us to adapt any of the 4-strokes to lighter tubular midsections and put our own electronics on to be able to do cams, compression, bore & stroke, etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Insane-o
The alternative is to start developing more aftermarket parts to keep older technology alive. One thing is for sure; people like us usually don’t sit back and watch, so I, for one, am excited to see where the solutions come from for the small go-fasts.
Specific output of anything with an actual expansion chamber says that it works far better than trying to get the pulses of a V engine to be timed correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by FMP
Jimmy Wynn and Charlie Strang disagree. They are famous now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaaaaat
How is investing in the largest die-casting machine in NA something they "needed"? The other manufacturers don't have one; I guess they didn't need it? You're really grasping at straws in your quest against the 4-stroke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaaaaat
Now that you know about the Sea-Doo Spark, I expect you'll be at the dealership this weekend buying one? They even have the lower hp levels of the old 2-stroke skis you fondly remember!Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaaaaat
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineermike
Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroSkreamin
Seems more and more are noticing what's going on here. Seriously, you 2-stroke lovers need to start your own thread and bash 4-strokes until your heart is content so you can stop messing up the forum for the rest of us who are living in the present.Quote:
Originally Posted by madmatic
Relax Francis, This site was started looong ago when almost everyone on here was a guy that Drove and built their own s#!t and had a boat that was less than 21ft.... We now we have a much more diverse crowd and the engine world has changed alot to say the least. Most of the original hotrod crowd is still here and when someone says racing engine.. half the guys including me thinks 375lb 300drag /monty skeleton monster motor and the other thinks 35 cat with twin 400Rs.. Both are bad ass if you love fast boats but two different worlds with two different buyers .....Capts post a few lines back is spot on...Dave
H2OPERF, I agree and believe there's room for both. I'd like to see SnF as THE site for 4-stroke OB performance, which will ensure a bright future. Note that I don't go into the 300 Drag threads and try to explain why 4-strokes are better. I see no reason to go in and crap on those threads and many folks would appreciate reciprocity.
Use of a chamber on the end of a pipe does nothing to change the appropriate time as you suggest. Low speed arrival is still way ahead of optimum in addition to depreciation of the signal through the distance travel required vs the 7-12" inches of distance port to port depending on which pairing you consider on a 120° pin spacing. V configuration has nothing to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by engineermike
Two stroke outboards as you know aren't dirt bikes with gears or sleds with variable transmissions. They require the low end power.
Two stroke lovers, now that's funny. But if you don't get it that's ok because 4 strokes are simple.
Onward then
I look at these new motors like i look at Ferrari's or GT40's, very i nteresting, but i can never afford one, nor anything to put it on. It's the way of the future and I accept that, but I don't have to really like it. Growing up on 2.4's and 2.5's I have no concept of what to put these motors on money wise. I will keep my boats with my 2.4's on them, pull em out every so often, and go riding untill the stator goes out, get towed in and do it again next week. I appreciate what Merc is building, but it has no connection to the average Joe. Impressive though.
EeeeeeexactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by carb a rator
Could always tie a couple lifeline jackets around the fatso in case of.....
Right now BRP has to be seriously considering it. After all,They probably never dreamed that there would be a market for 700#,$50K+ outboard motor. They have the hardware to make it happen. That being said,just how big IS that market? Is it even WORTH pursuing? Certainly no expert here but I hope they stay far away from the big end horsepower race and focus on being the best "under 300 hp" outboard on the market. Thats where the real buyers areQuote:
Originally Posted by Hayabusajm
I agree that the volume market has to be in the under 300hp market, but if Merc or anyone else can sell enough 60K motors ... the money is there too. What do you think the margin is on the 450R? How much could one of them actually cost to manufacture, I think they are making a lot on each one.Quote:
Originally Posted by loop
Brp makes all the meanest machines for other sports. 1.8L 300+hp Jetski with a warranty but they only make 300hp Outboard. I’ve heard something different is in the works but with Rotax in your back pocket why the hell would you design a new 2-stroke :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Insane-o
These v8 are impressive but @$60k the only way I will be seeing 450hp on pump gas is gonna be a 2-stroke from brp but there will be nothing brp left on it.
I've been wondering this for a long time. Their 4-tec 1.5 liter 3-cylinder 12 valve SOHC supercharged engine is extremely compact and light (~200 lb, engine only) and makes 255 hp. I always thought it would make a good outboard engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by baja200merk
Trump gets re-elected and you put two more guys in your shop we are going to watch you go black like we watch the states go red....That 24 needs a set of 300Rs with 1.60s-don't give up "look how long it takes me to chase my junk to completion".Quote:
Originally Posted by baja200merk
Joe
:D:D:D:D:D:D:DTrump IS going to JAIL
That boats never going in the water I figured letting him drive mine two years ago would of put fire in his ass still nothing. These v8 are the future of boats for next couple decades.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPEROG
Kavanaugh isn't a supreme court justice, Muller has proof of collusion, there won't be any money given to build a wall, and Torrente is still up in TN. driving the F1 boat doing demos.-you are like CNN only you bring it in to our personal hobby as well. Keep drinking the Pelosi punch "it makes you a very informed person and you continue appear as just that" NOT...Quote:
Originally Posted by CUDA
Joe
People can say the same about me Ryan-mine has been in process long before his was started. I have faith in brother Kev. and I hope his business continues to crank the way it has in the last couple of years-he might just spin up a new 28DW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risco
Joe
To visit Hillery and Billy boy...Quote:
Originally Posted by CUDA
You are truly demented, you have 20 posts in the Kavanaugh thread I have none, I never said anything about Muller has proof of collusion, once again I have no posts in that discussion, but you have many, but Muller did say there were more than 100 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia, odd would you not agree? never said no money would be given to the wall, still has not been given though he did declare a national emergency to gain access to money, the drugs come in trucks, RVs, boats NOT back packs, The Only thing you are right about was Torrente was not driving a race boat at the debut, was not ready. Most of your posts have been in the Politics area, pure hyperbole.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPEROG
Back under your rock liberal troll
Grand new motor, does things nobody expected
cant wait to see one or twins on a ski racing boat
Only a idiot would take a thread a new V8 Merc. and make it political?
Attachment 442517
I would hope to see Greg clean this up. Some of us are a bit obtuse...and I hope to see the rest of you in Bay City.
Good morning Sam, .... Good morning Ralph
Is it me or is the stbd motor missing something that costs about $5000?Quote:
Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF
The boat ran great all day for the photo shoot. The only issue was a windshield crack and I think you get the idea of why that happened (rough day off central Florida's East coast). There are several pictures of the boat very dry.
Joe
Seen many Instagram..Quote:
Originally Posted by JPEROG
.
just my .02c
windshield should not crack
curious who makes those windshields on the 420?
.