Wet Foam - New Hull? Tell Me How to Handle It

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Originally Posted by Baja170

If you plan to keep the boat for a while or even if you plan to sell it in a few years, just get it all fixed right. Then no worries and have fun.

So is that what a Chopper Gun layup looks like S&F with all the dry non rolled out fibers sticking up to soak up water? I've never had or seen one before. Definitely not what I would ever own.

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I can't say with 100 percent certainly but based on some of those photos, it does indeed appear to be chopper-gun work. Unfortinately, most mass-produced boats utilize that method of construction, at least partly, including many very expensive models. It's an extremely fast means of building up fiberglass lay ups. However, I would not assume that Key West is using chopper guns to lay up their hulls. For interior components such as seat bases, wells, and liners, chopper gun layup is usually alright. It's just a fact of boat building. Carolina Skiff builds their boats almost exclusively using chopper guns. So does Boston Whaler, Sea Ray, and many, many others.

But Key West is known to be a high quality boat, and I don't want to draw too many conclusions based on photos alone.

Greg

10-4, thank you for the info. I have never seen that before on any of our boats. Maybe on my Dad's first Larson when I was 8 but I don't remember for sure, I do remember it was pretty rough under the deck and not finished like my Intimidator, Shadow and the Ski Nautique or any of my Baja's or Dad's Checkmate's.

I'm having a hard time seeing the whole picture of how this boat is setup but a few things..

#1 - that drain setup they are using is terrible, sooner or later it's going to clog (by debri, growth, or critters) and they have got it all buried in fiberglass and foam so you will not be able to reasonably replace anything and will need to snake or blast it out - this is a very messy way to do it.

#2 - I don't care what kind of core it is, it should be sealed in an absolutely waterproof manner, if not waterproof vaperproof

A bilge in a boat should be a clear path for draining fore & aft. A locker in a boat should either drain right out of the boat (in a big boat), into the bilge directly, or be pumped out. It should not have drain hoses snaking from one place to another.

Anyway, not a fan of this sort of production boat setup, linered hulls, foam, and that whole construction methodology but my guess is it's not getting fixed right by the people that built it in the first place because they just won't understand the problem.

I'd find a way to get rid of those drains and seal the area up - I assume there is just no way for water to get from under the boxes to the bilge because of whatever BS they put under there (probably foam poured in), so I'd say if the boxes can be made to drain onto the deck then do that (ie like an ice chest that sits on top the deck, put a drain on the bottom/side with a plug), if the boxes can't be made to drain onto the deck then find a way to put a bilge pump in them, pull the hoses out if you can or if not jam them into the foam and seal the hole off with fiberglass/epoxy/filler.

Jon

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Originally Posted by Scream And Fly

I can't say with 100 percent certainly but based on some of those photos, it does indeed appear to be chopper-gun work. Unfortinately, most mass-produced boats utilize that method of construction, at least partly, including many very expensive models. It's an extremely fast means of building up fiberglass lay ups. However, I would not assume that Key West is using chopper guns to lay up their hulls. For interior components such as seat bases, wells, and liners, chopper gun layup is usually alright. It's just a fact of boat building. Carolina Skiff builds their boats almost exclusively using chopper guns. So does Boston Whaler, Sea Ray, and many, many others.

But Key West is known to be a high quality boat, and I don't want to draw too many conclusions based on photos alone.

Greg

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If you folks were ever in the Hydrostream factory
You would have Chop Gun dreams / nightmares never saw such a mess... ever

Nothing like a little chop for skin coat , or building a mold...

- Update - Dropped off at the dealership.

GM at the dealership called this morning and told me to bring it in. He looked it over and said that he would contact "Tom" (the plant manager) and explain the situation but that he wanted to go ahead and have it fixed next week. There were no hassles, and no redirection that its the nature of owning a boat, etc. etc.

GM said they'll grind out the we area and seal everything up with 5200 around all the bilge areas (protruding pipes etc.). We both agreed that the soaked area shouldn't be more than a couple inches around. He said it wouldn't really even be that noticeable over the factory work.

Didn't think to ask if would have any effect on the 10 year warranty if they have it done.

Should I get something in writing from the dealership that they performed the work and just explain my concern about the warranty being voided for any reason?

Guess I'll be emailing now & thank you all for the support.

.

Wow congratulations!

All's well that ends well




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Originally Posted by Stoker1

GM said they'll grind out the we area and seal everything up with 5200 around all the bilge areas (protruding pipes etc.).

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Sealing with 5200 is better than what they did there initially, however, it's pretty common in boats to actually fiberglass PVC pipes in. I don't like that setup you've got there but if they mated the black rubber hose to a piece of PVC such that it's PVC coming through the hole, one could fiberglass around the edge of the two original PVC pipes as well as that one that is rubber today, such that you have nicely sealed up fiberglass flanges there. The area could then be gel or bilge coated over for something that is fairly sane & professional looking.

Jon

That's great news. And as for getting things in writing - absolutely. Everything. Down to the very last detail. They seem to have admitted-by-action that what you discovered is not as it should be. No matter how expensive or inexpensive any boat is, there are proper protocols for boat construction that should always be adhered to. I would also suggest that before they seal it, some probing be performed in the affected areas to get a good idea of moisture penetration. It's likely extremely minor, but in my opinion, it should be done.

It was great talking to you last night and if I can do anything to help, I would be happy to.

On a side note, for permanent installations, 5200 is fantastic and almost animalistic in its adhesion properties. For less-permanent installations such as jackplates and engines, consider using 4200. It seals out water just as well, however it has less mechanical adhesion, which makes removal easier.

Greg

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Originally Posted by Stoker1

- Update - Dropped off at the dealership.

GM at the dealership called this morning and told me to bring it in. He looked it over and said that he would contact "Tom" (the plant manager) and explain the situation but that he wanted to go ahead and have it fixed next week. There were no hassles, and no redirection that its the nature of owning a boat, etc. etc.

GM said they'll grind out the we area and seal everything up with 5200 around all the bilge areas (protruding pipes etc.). We both agreed that the soaked area shouldn't be more than a couple inches around. He said it wouldn't really even be that noticeable over the factory work.

Didn't think to ask if would have any effect on the 10 year warranty if they have it done.

Should I get something in writing from the dealership that they performed the work and just explain my concern about the warranty being voided for any reason?

Guess I'll be emailing now & thank you all for the support.

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Originally Posted by leaky

Sealing with 5200 is better than what they did there initially, however, it's pretty common in boats to actually fiberglass PVC pipes in. I don't like that setup you've got there but if they mated the black rubber hose to a piece of PVC such that it's PVC coming through the hole, one could fiberglass around the edge of the two original PVC pipes as well as that one that is rubber today, such that you have nicely sealed up fiberglass flanges there. The area could then be gel or bilge coated over for something that is fairly sane & professional looking.

Jon

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Agree, if a grinder and fiberglass is already going on glassing the tubes is much better.
if access is really limited and they dont want to make a mess there are better sealants for this purpose then 5200.
5200 when applied thick takes a long time to cure (even fast cure 5200)
there are good 2 part sealants that would be a better choice here if fiberglassing the tubes is not feasible

[QUOTE=leaky;2873688 I don't like that setup you've got there but if they mated the black rubber hose to a piece of PVC such that it's PVC coming through the hole,

Jon[/QUOTE]


The hose is inside a pvc pipe already, but might be tricky to glass it because it's cut flush

^ Agree on the 4200, more than adequate to do the job!

pointer

If all they're gonna do is goop it up why not use some thick epoxy putty? 5200, while good stuff is not a permanent fix, is not meant for this thick or type of an application, nor is it going to stop the water over time. Just my 2cts......

:iagree:

I agree, do it right or not at all.

GM emailed back after I inquired about the repair effecting the warranty. His last words before I drove off, were that he would send a narrative and pictures to the plant manager, but knows that is the preferred method of fixing the area. He still has to get permission to do so though???

More to follow.

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Originally Posted by Stoker1

GM emailed back after I inquired about the repair effecting the warranty. His last words before I drove off, were that he would send a narrative and pictures to the plant manager, but knows that is the preferred method of fixing the area. He still has to get permission to do so though???

More to follow.

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Just remember, the main priority of the dealer will be to satisfy you by means of the fastest and most inexpensive means (for them) as possible. If you are in doubt about anything, do not hesitate to tell them. Call me anytime if I can help.

Greg