22" Velocity outboards

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Originally Posted by HighVelocity

A superboat running those speeds with that power, I can't see it.
24 degree V, no real pad. BUT, it's a wave crusher, so maybe if you really break it loose.

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I know of at least two 21 Superboats in LI that run about 100 with 300x's. Dirk Pitt and Hoser are the ones I believe and I have been present for one of Dirk Pitt's fly bys in his superboat. 21 Superboats have a pad and are 22 degree V. But alot of these guys are notching there transom and widening their pad. I was looking at the Velocity RLC bought and my friend Marc (waterboy1) and they are bigger than mine. Just thought, with the notch and pad they should be a little faster. My Challenger is a tank and I bet it weighs pretty close to an early Velocity. I will see if I can throw up an 80+ pass on gps this weekend and forget about all the other work. :D Unfortunately I wont have my race boat driver from Lake X driving this time.:(

oh, forgot to mention that the V22 also came in I/O versions, some with tweaked big blocks were known to have achieved triple digit speeds...

http://www.freewebs.com/velocity22/index.htm

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Originally Posted by cutwater

oh, forgot to mention that the V22 also came in I/O versions, some with tweaked big blocks were known to have achieved triple digit speeds...

http://www.freewebs.com/velocity22/index.htm

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RLC should be just about finished with rigging his Velocity. Its a 87 all Kevlar hull. It now sports his drivetrain out of the stingray and his shortened drive. I think his x dimension is somewhere around -2. Should hit the water this Sunday.
http://i33.tinypic.com/1yu9gp.jpg

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Originally Posted by vnemous

RLC should be just about finished with rigging his Velocity. Its a 87 all Kevlar hull. It now sports his drivetrain out of the stingray and his shortened drive. I think his x dimension is somewhere around -2. Should hit the water this Sunday.
http://i33.tinypic.com/1yu9gp.jpg

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What proof is there, that it is an all Kevlar hull? Let us know his seatrail test results come Sunday.

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Originally Posted by AirRide

What proof is there, that it is an all Kevlar hull?

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The layup is yellow in color and Steve Stepp said it was. Do you know something Stepp doesn't about this boat??

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Originally Posted by lilabner

I've got an 84..new stringers, floor, tank, interior..big Johnson:D


http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...eolcity004.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...ityboat003.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...eolcity005.jpg

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Nice 22 Butch. Ever have any hull delamination issues? Does the center console come out? $$??

That is yellow and very cool. But I was talking about the matting, but you knew that didnt you:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by vnemous

I dont get why it wont run in the 80s. nice wide pad, notch I keep looking but i cant find anyone running those speeds in a velocity with that same superboat/challenger setup.
Is the Linder hull that much faster?

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Yes...and it handles better too.

Steve builds a good boat and he is a friend of mine, but I believe he designed the 22 as part of the overall Velocity line and not as a stand alone. As a result it borrowed styling from bigger, sleeker hulls and that didn't necessarily translate perfectly as a scale down.

When George designed the Challenger he took a clean sheet of paper with the explicit purpose of creating the perfect hull for the (then new) V6 outboard motors. In addition he wanted three other ingredients:

1. A boat that could handle Great South Bay and all its choppy characteristics

2. The highest quality materials, fit and finish that money could buy for the high end buyer.

3. A completely cored and monocoqued piece that was absolutely solid without flexing or vibration. This not only made for a fabulous riding experience but a rigid bottom is faster than a flexible one.

In addition his knowledge of hydro and aerodynamics...he is an ex Grumman aircraft engineer and boat racer after all...is second to none. That led to a variety of subtle characteristics that are too numerous to mention but include a forward entry section that gives superb turning characteristics and minimum ballistic response on wave impact, and a very unique pad that provides reasonable rough water ride, yet still allows the hull to "fly" on top of it at high speeds.

One other secret ingredient was involved here. George's brother in law, Ginther, a German pattern maker. Ginther made the plugs for the Challenger. He also made the plugs for the 21 Shadow hull and decks, the 30' Shadow Cat deck, and the 36 Shadow Cat hull and deck (which I burned during the partnership litigation). Back in those days (before CNC machines) pattern makers were MUCH more precise than normal marine plug makers. He also could create compound curves that the most of the other guys could only dream about and drool over. These compound curves abound on the Challenger and that is what makes it so unique and its styling so timeless. In short, nobody else could create the shapes, subtle flares, and perfect fit that went into that hull.......

The combination of that mold work,custom stainless, teak, custom interior, and full balsa core made the boat a complete seamless work of art. All of this was in George's specs when he first put the pencil to the paper. In my book it stands alone as the closest thing to the perfect hull ever crafted.

It's a shame that so many "soup bowls" had to have been born out of one set of the molds. It's kind of like making a taxicab out of a Bentley.

T2x

Rich do you know what the dimensions are for the notch and wider pad the Long Island guys are running?? I have to have some repairs on my hull and might do it all at the same time. I really like my boat and would like to take it to the next step. Thanks Mike

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Originally Posted by vnemous

Rich do you know what the dimensions are for the notch and wider pad the Long Island guys are running?? I have to have some repairs on my hull and might do it all at the same time. I really like my boat and would like to take it to the next step. Thanks Mike

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All of the notched hulls I have seen have no pad modifications.....( and I wouldn't touch the pad). The notch is 7 inches deep. Simply take a measurement off your buddy's 21 Shadow..... That's what they are copying.

They find it handles better and is slightly faster....same thing we aimed for when we built it.;)

T2x

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Originally Posted by T2x

All of the notched hulls I have seen have no pad modifications.....( and I wouldn't touch the pad). The notch is 7 inches deep. Simply take a measurement off your buddy's 21 Shadow..... That's what they are copying.

They find it handles better and is slightly faster....same thing we aimed for when we built it.;)

T2x

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Rich you think there is any advantage to widening the pad? Isnt Joes pad wider on his SB?

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Originally Posted by vnemous

Rich you think there is any advantage to widening the pad?

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no

By the way the fastest 21 is Joe Imprescia's. That hull is ultra light and has seen close to 110 with a 300X........ He has had it for years and it has no bottom mods that I know of.....The Intimidator is right out of the Shadow mold and that is also fast...although there is some concern about construction as I understand it.

Bottom line....the hulls were correct as molded. Unless you think you are smarter than George....leave them alone. He had a reason for EVERY inch of that boat.

T2x

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Originally Posted by T2x

no

Unless you think you are smarter than George T2x

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I'm not sure I'm smarter than a 5th grader much less George.:D

I think 80 is pretty respectible for my boat. George Fuller drove it to 78 in fresh water bouncing off the rev limiter. He was the second owner of my boat back in the 80's and said it the fastest he ever drove it even when he had it. Plus it loves the rough stuff.

It all depends on what you need out of a SOB in the <22 range. Each has a micro-niche depending on the intended use. That said, incredible options currently for sale in CA, FL, SC and most likely more coming on line as winter hits.

The 21 Challenger is about as straight forward a design as it gets. Your basic 21 1/2 degree constant deadrise vee. No stepped transom. An undersized 6" wide pad that does very little for overall hydrodynamic hull lift, until the highest speeds were reached. The pad and lifting strake edges weren't tooled with the sharpest corners. Basic transom angle of 11 degrees. Basic motor/splashwell design. A very simple, basic deck design. Nothing to it. It was, and is still, not a design that any aerodynamics need come into play, because in 1976, the boats speeds were simply not there. The windshield & graphics styling helped introduce a size boat that did not exsist yet for the new outboards, that is all. The build quality was good, what it needed to be , for that envirement. By todays marine design standards, its just one of many older shapes that should only be recognized for what it is, an old shape of fiberglas reinforced plastic. Anyone that would go to production, and copy this boat in any shape or form, won't be moving forward in the boat manufacturing business. But there will always be some tard out there, that will do just that. Build a few boats and fizzle out. Seen it a hundred times. Anyways, why did we get off topic on this thread?? Its supposed to be all about the 22' Velocity's. Wonder why nobody ever pulls a set of molds from a 22 Velocity? It is not, I repeat NOT, a patented "Stepp" design.