Butch - Was there a Mark Seay and can you tell if this is him in this photo with Bill? - SteveQuote:
Originally Posted by lilabner
http://i42.tinypic.com/35lxfep.jpg
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Butch - Was there a Mark Seay and can you tell if this is him in this photo with Bill? - SteveQuote:
Originally Posted by lilabner
http://i42.tinypic.com/35lxfep.jpg
:cheers:Brothers, and like a second family in the 70's..We were all at HM, then Mike and I went to Fino..Mike then went to Nordskog, I went to Porsches, Mark moved around till he found Bill and Al..Then Mark got Mike a job with Bill..He was a great fabricator/designer...Their younger brother Jim was my partner till he drank himself to death at 50..The Popeyes shop was right behind mine, so when a road test was needed, it took some time to find our way back..A guy named Denny was there too..And yes, that's Mark..We are still in touch..Mike lives with him..
Thanks Butch – You have restored my confidence in my own sanity. Sometimes I think folks believe that I know more than I do about who, where, what, when and why from back in the day. Reality is that I knew very little about things other than what was going on right around me. Bill and I were close but after I went off to fly, we were not in touch too often and we were each very busy with our own individual activities. I did meet Mark Seay and probably met Mike. Fun Story….We had an Air National Guard Commanders Conference in Jacksonville sometime during the 80’s. Bill and Al were in Key West for the Worlds Offshore Race with the 50’ Cougar Cat. At that time they were in development with the Ford powered GoetZ catamaran. I called Bill and asked him if he had a boat he could send to Jacksonville to put on display at the Commanders Conference. He sent the Geotz cat with a big Air National Guard emblem emblazoned on the tail. Everyone enjoyed crawling all over the boat. Since it was a wide load it could not travel on the road after dark. However, we wanted to keep it on display beyond sunset and then take it from a hotel in downtown Jacksonville to the Florida Air National Guard hanger for safekeeping. We had folks from all walks of life in the Guard, including many law enforcement officers. After quick consultation a Jacksonville Sherriff/Florida Highway Patrol escort had been arranged for the 15-20 mile trip. I was to ride with the Popeyes Truck Driver who I think was one of the Seay brothers. I am probably wrong about that, but that is one of the reasons why I asked you about Mark Seay in my last post. Anyway, if it was a Seay, he will be able to confirm this story. As we left the hotel, we had several motorcycle cops with lights flashing and sirens blaring with us. We jumped onto I-95 while several others blasted ahead of us and closed the I-95 entrance ramps until after we had passed. I was a little surprised at the service, but ?Mark/Mike? Was blown away by it and kept saying, “Who the hell do you know?”. As usual, I didn’t know the right people, but I guess I did know people that did know the right people.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2ur8lxz.jpghttp://i39.tinypic.com/of0d43.jpg
Another picture of the Goetz Cat. This project ultimately led to the demise of the Popeyes team of Copeland and Sirois. Others will know much more than I about the technical aspects of the boat. Obviously they were trying new stuff....surfacing props with shafts horiZontal to waterline and built into step, closed cockpit with air conditioning (Al loved COLD air conditioning), 4 big block Fords,etc. Unfortunately, they kept breaking. The following is what Bill told me........Just prior to the Sarasota race, Al wanted a guarantee from Bill that the boat would absolutely finish the race. That was the final straw! Bill faxed his resignation to Al. The thing that really hurt Bill was that Al immediately had the shop door locks changed. Things were a bit dicey between them for quite awhile. Eventually they renewed their friendship, but never again worked together. I think Bob Idoni initially took over the team and others followed. The boat was reworked and eventually did well.
http://i43.tinypic.com/amay3c.jpg
where is the race slated to take place (the actual course? )(jupiter/abacoa?)
Mike did a lot of the design and drawings on the Goetz cat mechanicals..He and Bill also designed the drive boxes. Mike was up at the boat builders factory a lot as sort of liason..They built it with some really trick composite aluminum panels..They showed me some cross sections, and I think they said it was the same material the wings of a 747 were built with..The big problem was it couldn't get rid of the water..It got trapped in the panel core, and added about a ton of weight to the boat..So a light boat turned to a pig..I will call Mark and ask him more about it, he also has a lot of pictures..Bill, Mike and Mark were pretty tight, and a very solid work group..They were fun to be around..I think Al was the problem. He didn't know how loyal his crew was to him, and how dedicated they were..
One of the biggest problems in racing is the jockeying for position between crew chiefs for the major owners. There is a lot of backstabbing and double dealing. This is aggravated by the bar flys who, it seems, are constantly jawboning with the owners. What happens is the owners listen to too many people who either of an agenda or no knowledge whatsoever. This happens even with the best of them. When Bill left Popeyes the magic ended. Idoni is a friend as is Powers, but there was something magic about the Copeland Sirois partnership. Idoni enjoyed it with Fayva, and certainly Powers was amazing with Gentry and the Apache Heritage. However their personalities never meshed with Al like Bill's did. That and the fact that Bill's innovative abilities were second to none made them one of the most successful and iconic teams in Offshore racing history.
T2x
Quote from 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid', "Who Are Those Guys?' :D:D:D
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The guy in the middle is one handsome devil..........Quote:
Originally Posted by seeroy
Mr. Kiekhaefer would often "roast" the competition(s) motors when he had his dealers in Fond du Lac for events and meetings.
About a year ago in the woods on the ledge, the original tripod used for these roasts was located - 50 years later. Thought this item would be of interest to the readers of S&F. It recently was set up for a local boating event in Fond du Lac - but I guess no one had a "Fat 50" to roast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernie
So roast a Tohatsu....I think Mr. K would be pleased...:D
Cool piece of history!
Yeah look like a Tohatsu...Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskier
http://i26.tinypic.com/2ex4qr4.jpg
(L)Brett May...(C)Race Boat Groupie(KlingOn)...(R)Butch Stokes ----Guess who bought the drinks?Quote:
Originally Posted by seeroy
You don't change much Brett !!!!!!!!! except round the waistline??? where's that trim young fella that ran THE COSSIE with me at Havasu in 78, or was it 79, i forget exactly.
Have you forgiven your old man for giving the inboard trophy to Jack D' Eath . ???
How is the lovely Karen these days ???
Still remember you showing me round the "APACHE" facility and how clinical the set up was-----just like the COSWORTH factory.
See you at the OFFY.
Do you have some kind of problem with me....or is this just a joke I don't get?Quote:
Originally Posted by AirRide
Also, who are you?
T2x
What a distinguished looking group,,,,,,,,,,, Round up everyone,, remember OFF ,,,,,,,,,, Blowin downwind,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, See you guys, in Jupiter @ at the Mother of all part:cheers:ies,,,,,,,,,,, J
I love you man:cheers:
I have a Merc history question, this seems to be the place to get the answer.....
Carl sold to Brunswick in '60 or '61?....When he sold he also signed a 10 year non compete clause. This is why the Aeromarine engines did not hit the scene until '70-'71.
So, did Carl have a 10 year contract to keep working with Mercury and run the racing division at Lake X? Is this also why Merc motors had the "K" emblem on them up until 1971?
Mr. K . was at Paris in '63 and '64 so he was still heavily involved around that time.
From what I've read, Carl sold on Sept 30, 1961. The Kiekhaefer operation became a separate subsidiary of Brunswick with Carl as president and chief exec but there was no specific term. Carl also bought the Siesta Key test facility and Lake X which he leased back to Brunswick. He had a non compete until 1971. Carl resigned from the Kiekhaefer Mercury Div in 1970 so I imagine the Kiekhaefer name remained on the engines until he left. After he left was when he began Kiekhaefer Aeromarine Motors in Feb 1970
Gary Larson, from the book The Legend of Mercury by Jeffrey Rodengen
Kiekhaefer Aeromarine was Carl's holding company that owned Kiekhaefer Mercury Outboards from some time in the early 1950's or earlier and was actually the entity that sold Kiekhaefer Mercury Outboards to Brunswick.
Carl remained president of Kiekhaefer Mercury Outboards under Brunswick ownership and was a senior vice president of Brunswick ... one of dozens and dozens of Brunswick senior vice presidents and practically the only one making money for Brunswick in the 1960's. Kiekhaefer hoped that the fact that his fiefdom was making money would exempt it from direct meddling from Brunswick corporate ... but the reverse eventually happened and Carl became greatly disillusioned.
When the no compete time expired, Carl simply opened the bloom of the existing KAM flower ... with its mature, deep and strong roots
I see now. I did not know that KAM went that far back. The shares that Brunswick handed him at the sale fell sharply shortly after which must have really soured his relationship with them.
Thanks!
Probably did from day one.
Early on, Carl retailed stuff from KAM under the name "KAMINC"
There was a whole line of stuff along side the official "Quicksilver" line made by Merc
Some KAMINC stuff from way back:
Read the book a little closer and found that KAM was formed in 1946. As Carl approached his 64th birthday, the doors of the reborn Kiekhaefer Aeromarine Motors officially opened on Feb 1, 1970, but he could not compete with Brunswick and Mercury products until Sept 1, 1971.
In 1973 is when the Mercury Marine name appeared on the Brunswick/Mercury Marine products and the Kiekhaefer name was on Carls products only.
Gary
Karl for all his "being in control" took a long time to decide who to sell to. If I remember correctly the Stock was worth about $30 per share when he did the deal and resulted in a few million dollars. That does not sound like a lot today, but was a fortune back then. Within a short time the stock went to about $3 per share, whiping out his fortune.
He had ruled Mercury with an Iron fist and lots of bluster. Once with Brunswick, he became just another guy in a corporate structure. Whie he probably made money, the rest of the Brunswick politicians simply continued to take his power away from him until he threw in the towel. Not only did he lose his company, he lost his money and power.
He did do stuff later, but never recovered completely to the glory days.
OFF IS ON!!!
All reports of our death are greatly exaggerated!!!<O:p</O:p
“Old Farts Forever”, OFF2009 in Jupiter Florida, 23-25 October 2009, is a definite go. The “Tropic Thunder” OSS race scheduled for that week has indeed been canceled. That event is a victim of the current economy as sponsorship has dried up. However, OFF2009 is up and running. From the very beginning we opted to be an event without a budget. That simply means that we have made, and will continue to make, arrangements for a 2-3 day gathering of old boat racers to socialize and have a little fun. All events will be very informal. There are no registration fees and no fees to attend any of the scheduled events. All costs (lodging, food, drinks, entertainment, golf, fishing, etc.) will be the responsibility of each individual. This concept has allowed OFF to go ON regardless of the economy. We are not sponsor dependent. However, several organizations and individuals have graciously offered to help. Rich Luhrs is bringing his immaculately restored Switzer wing. Geico racing will display their offshore boat and host an open house at their shop. We currently have commitments for a Raveau, a 7 liter Hydro and a Jersey Skiff and are working on attaining other types. While informality is the rule, it would be nice if we have some idea of how many people to expect. You can help in that regard by responding to [email protected] <O:p</O:p
Currently there are 3 scheduled events as follows:<O:p</O:p
Friday, 23 October – 4:00PM-until at JJ Muggs Stadium Grill, 1203 Town Center Drive, Jupiter Florida. Cash bar and food. We will have several race boats on display in the park across the street.<O:p</O:p
Saturday 24 October – 11:AM-2:00PM Open House at Geico Race Shop, Bldg A, 7555 Garden Road, Riviera Beach Florida.<O:p</O:p
Saturday 24 October – 4:00PM-until at Brix Italian Fishery, 1000 North US Hwy 1, Jupiter Florida. Cash bar and food. Race boats on display.<O:p</O:p
Sunday 25 October – Golf, Fishing, Shopping, whatever floats your boat. <O:p</O:p
We are currently working on a “Headquarters” Hotel, however we will also identify others in order to suit different budgets.<O:p</O:p
Steve, I went to visit my girlfriend in Melbourne last weekend, and decided to take a little tourist trip up 441 Sunday afternoon. Michelle was a good sport and drove me out there, although her GPS could locate neither Lake Conlin nor the Old Melbourne Hwy. Just for everyone's info, for all intents and purposes "Old Melbourne Highway" comes to an end at the Lake X guard shack - there is no getting there from the southeast. You must turn off 441 Northwest of the lake and drive the 4-5 miles to get there. The gate guard was as nice as he could be, and actually had a reaonable knowledge of the history of the site. He knew who both Carl Kiekhaefer and Ken Kirchman were, as well as the lake's importance in outboard and boating history and what had gone on there over the years.
It seems they have to have 5 or 6 security people on ATVs continuously patrolling the grounds to keep hunters and poachers off the property, there are some beautiful deer out there as you can see. It is eerily quiet too... although if you strain really hard you can almost hear the sound of stackers echoing through the cypress trees. ;)
The picture quality isn't the best - it started raining really hard right as we got there, but I did the best I could. Hope you all enjoy them.
The "new shop":
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v.../lakexshop.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...lakexshop2.jpg
The deer at a feeder, and the foot bridge over the channel to the new shop:
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v.../lakexdeer.jpg
The timing tower (sorry, this is the best angle you can get from the gate):
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...imingtower.jpg
Tracy
Tracy - Absolutely beautiful pictures! They exactly portray the very serene environment that I expected would exist there today. I don't know what the Kirchman family plans for the future, but I am glad they have maintained the land in the manner that they have. Thank you for your pictures, from all of us that spent time at that magic place.
Best Regards - Steve Sirois
I was told that the property was being set up in a trust for the Boy Scouts of America, sounded like a great thing to do with it. The entire thing is over 11,000 acres. It is certainly being maintained very well.
Thanks for the photos, Many wondrfull friendships were made at that place,,, Was talking to Phil Schenk the other day, and talked about what we wouldn't give to run one more shift of endurance , Their even in that damn diesel powered boat they had their,,,,,,,
Welcome to Scream & Fly Tracy! And thank-you for going to the X & sharing your camera prowess. You certainly put your best foot forward in your introduction, lol.:thumbsup:
The photos are great. Too bad someone can't approach the Kirchman family to let you former Kiekhaefer Lake X employees back on the property for a few hours to renew old memories. Maybe one of you who knows Fred Kiekhaefer can convince him to arrange this for you guys and for himself. History and memories are important as this thread demonstrates. For me, I'd appreciate seeing more pictures since I was never there, but you guys have taken me there with your stories and photos. I appreciate that and this thread. Lake X , Placidia and Siesta Key have always been of great interest to me since I worked for my local Merc dealer as a kid and from seeing all the yellow Mercury boats running up and down the intracoastal. In my small way, I feel connected to Kiekhaefer Mercury. Thanks gentlemen, I appreciate all of this.
Gary Larson
Probably difficult to get back on the Lake X property,,,,,,,,, Plan B is for everyone to comee to OFF get together @ Jupiter Fl. Oct23rd-24, many Lake X Farts will be there...........
Xyzee farts will definitely be there.
Am bringing the original fonda newsletters on how fi really started. That should gain some attention.!!!!!!!
i was a bit young so i dont remember much but i do remember the popeyes boat when i was a kid,for some reason that boat has stood out in my mind all this time. my aunt lived on the intercoastal right next to the coastguard station in nokomis,fl man i miss that place... im fairly new to the performance boating i wish i had been into it alot sooner .. seems like ive missed out on an awseome era.
about the jupiter event.. is this open to everyone? i live about 15-20 minutes from there. It would be cool to meet some legends and hear a few stories... is there gonna be any boating happening that weekend?
twogees - Sure. Stop by. Very informal event. Be glad to meet you - SteveQuote:
Originally Posted by twogees
I can't imagine Lake X being as placid as it is in the pictures after reading all the stories of you crazy a-- lunatics running around the place. It was a different time and a more carefree era. I can understand why you guys miss the Lake X days so much It had to be great fun. I'll bet there are alot of ghosts at Lake X and on a quiet night you can still hear a tower of power howling around the lake on a never ending endurance run.
I'm sorry I'll be up north when you have the OFF get together of you old farts. Wait a minute, I'm an old fart too but without any history and stories of Lake X and racing. Wish I could meet up with you guys. In any case, I'll keep reading this site. Keep the stories coming.
Gary Larson
OFF2009 Update<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Things Are Getting Festive…And Yet Will Remain Very Informal!!!<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
OFF2009 (October 23-25 2009) is really beginning to pick up steam. The town of Abacoa/Jupiter is getting very interested and has created some media attention in the local area. They will close the streets in front and beside JJ Muggs for the Friday event so we can park boats there. Geico truck drivers will provide security for all boats during the evening. We have also arranged nighttime secure parking for the boats. There will be a band in the park across the street and street vendors in the area. Abacoa may also provide a couple of 9’ screens on the street so we can present some videos to the civilians in the area. And yet we will stay the way we want it. That is, very informal with our private room inside JJ Muggs. Saturday events will also be low key with “Old Farts” taking naps, the Geico Race shop open house and evening at BRIX. Jackie Wilson has volunteered to run a “Texas Scramble” golf tournament for whoever wants to chase that little round ball around. The when and where of Golf will depend on what sort of feedback he gets from the Duffers in the group. Details to follow. Once again, many have let us know of their intent to be there. It would be nice to have an idea about who else will be there. So drop us a line at [email protected] and let us know your intent and something about yourself. Photos would also be nice. Several area hotels have given us very good rates. When you call, mention OFF and, if that doesn’t work, just mention historic boat racers. Hotels and rates are as follows:
<O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p
LaQuinta Inn
34 Fishermans Wharf
Jupiter , FL 33477
(561)575-7201 ask for Theresa and mention OFF for $59 rate
Best Western Intercoastal Inn
810 South US Highway 1
Jupiter, FL 33477
(561)575-2936 mention OFF or Historic race boats for $79 rate
Jupiter Waterfront Inn
18903 SE Federal Hwy
Tequesta, FL 33469
(561) 747-9085 mention OFF or Historic race boats for $99 rate
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Homewood Suites by Hilton
4700 Donald Ross Road
Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33418
(561) 622-7799 Ask for Andrew for $145 rate<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
That's is a picture of the racing configuration of 888 :smiletest: with my Dad Roy A Ridgell Jr. driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by digital_jeff
Thought you all would like to see a few more.
My dad always said he had very little time to set-up the boat before the race. I believe the picture looking down the tunnel was taken during that initial setup testing within the Marine Stadium in Miami.
The story that he also told was of his feet on the steering wheel butt on the gas tank and head resting on the front cowling of the engine. He said he was lucky that the photo helicopter did not catch him in that position because Mr. K would have flipped:reddevil:, pun intended.
Love your site Steve, thanks
Greatly appreciated! Anything you can add would be wonderful! :)