White Is Wonderful!(post Omc Pics Here)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by perfmarine1

I was correct, two fire on one side and one on the the other then vise versa. So what the firing order is 123456, the order of the cylinders are not the same. It's like a chevy #1 on one side and #2 on the other and so on. I will post picture's of Turbo system but have to get permission from either Dave or Monty on the engine, depending on which one builds the engine.


This above statement is total BS. It is nothing like a chevy. Chevy is 4 stk.firing order 18436572,crank turns 2 times per power stroke. 2 stroke crank around tdc fires 1-2 then crank turnes 1/3 turn and 3-4 fires then crank turnes 1/3 turn and fires 5/6 and thats 1 turn of crank. cyls do not fire one on one side and two on the other somebody needs to go back too school just look at v-6 crank!!!!!!!!

---

Then please explain to me how all three on one side fires before any of the other side does:confused:, From what I see and understand when I rotate the crank there is two up and two down and two in the center am I correct? I know chevy has that firing order but the cylinder lay out is "if your looking at the front of the chevy sb" is Rt 1357 and Lt 2468 Now how is the cylinder lay out on the outboard v-6, not firing order either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gmcgruther

Then please explain to me how all three on one side fires before any of the other side does:confused:, From what I see and understand when I rotate the crank there is two up and two down and two in the center am I correct? I know chevy has that firing order but the cylinder lay out is "if your looking at the front of the chevy sb" is Rt 1357 and Lt 2468 Now how is the cylinder lay out on the outboard v-6, not firing order either.

---

Please forget the above post, I see the firing order and the way it fires in cylinder numbering, So I see there is always positive exhaust pulse's in the Three into one header as I say. Dave did mention running a stinger pipe for each bank would greatly help on the turbo system. As Dave said, The stinger pipe will cause back pressure to help keep some of the in coming air from escaping out the exhaust. I see his point now. I'm sorry for getting all missed up. I'm having a real hard time getting information I need dearly to continue my project.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STV_Keith

I know Monty and he's built a pair of V8's for me, and I certainly know of Dave Bush, even though I've never met the man. They both do top notch work in my book. That being said, if I were doing this type of project, I'd have the exhaust chest work done to mate it to the turbo, but leave as much of the rest of it alone as possible. Starting with a 250-300hp stock package, the turbo will add from 100-300 more HP. I think at that point, you'd be pushing the limits of the block, internals, etc. Starting with something that makes 450hp, you are going to stress those parts to the limit even sooner, with less boost.

I guess what I'm thinking is:

stock HP + turbo = 400-600hp, depending on boost
Dave/Monty power + low boost turbo = 500-600hp, depending on boost
Dave/Monty power + high boost turbo = 600+hp

The point is, if the end HP goal is the same, and you assume that the internals are going to hang on to the power (disregarding what the gearcase may think about it), then it would be cheaper to just do the exhaust mods you require and add boost, then to mod and then add boost. Take a 450hp NA motor and add boost, and you could have the potential for 800+. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way under the sun that an OMC would stay together with that kind of power.

Either way, good luck. It's certainly a fun project, if you have the funds to see it through. At the very least, you'll be one of VERY few who have done it, and will have some info that few have. If it runs well and lives, you'll have a real monster there. :)

---

I asked Dave and Monty about power output of there nitrous engine(V-6's), I was really surprized that both said they have hit 800 hp on nitrous already and still learnin more to make more power. I asked both of them if that was based on there 400+ hp N/A race engine's and I got this reply "yes". The Both said that the blocks are good for about 1000 to 1100 hp and then your pushing it, My goal is only to take their race 400+ hp engine and make additional 200 ponies, I'd figured if you want to make really stupid power, it would be up the owner of the boat, not me. I just want to make it conservative and practical, not race only.

Post some pictures of your boat and motor as they stand now,so we can all see before and after pics. This is a post your white motor pics thread remember!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gmcgruther

I asked Dave and Monty about power output of there nitrous engine(V-6's), I was really surprized that both said they have hit 800 hp on nitrous already and still learnin more to make more power. I asked both of them if that was based on there 400+ hp N/A race engine's and I got this reply "yes". The Both said that the blocks are good for about 1000 to 1100 hp and then your pushing it, My goal is only to take their race 400+ hp engine and make additional 200 ponies, I'd figured if you want to make really stupid power, it would be up the owner of the boat, not me. I just want to make it conservative and practical, not race only.

---

Fair enough. If the blocks will handle 1000+, what about the crank/rods/pistons/pins/head gaskets, etc? Where is the fuse and what is available to bullet-proof it?

Comparing a nitrous engine is misleading because they are only at power for a very short period. Living at a sustained power level is a totally different story. Making power is one thing controlling the heat that power makes is another especially if run for long distances. To say a block is good for a power not obtained is an educated guess. What rpm are you hoping to make this power? I know both Dave and Gordon and have a lot of respect for both but you need to understand they are making power at big rpm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STV_Keith

Fair enough. If the blocks will handle 1000+, what about the crank/rods/pistons/pins/head gaskets, etc? Where is the fuse and what is available to bullet-proof it?

---

They have yet to find out the power limits of modified stock rods, the crank is forged steel, the pistons of course would be forged, The block is another store, Both Guy's have said to me their very close to have a gernade on their hands. They both use aftermarket studs and bolts to hold this together but they are limits to Cast blocks, Now Dave has said to me there is a company out there that can make billet power head that can handle anything you can through at it but the price is a major factor. Dave also mentioned there is a guy that makes billet rods at 3k to 5k each(per rod) and those won't come apart period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by racer

Comparing a nitrous engine is misleading because they are only at power for a very short period. Living at a sustained power level is a totally different story. Making power is one thing controlling the heat that power makes is another especially if run for long distances. To say a block is good for a power not obtained is an educated guess. What rpm are you hoping to make this power? I know both Dave and Gordon and have a lot of respect for both but you need to understand they are making power at big rpm.

---

Nitrous is violent on parts and at take off where turbo or turbo's can be set to soft start and come on strong in the middle and hard at the end and not be as hard on engine parts. Dave has said to me his 450+hp engines only crank to 7500 maybe 8000 rpms and the video did prove that. That's my base rt there, Start with a 450+hp engine and add the turbo, I want to start small and work my way up, exsample 450+hp N/A then add boost lets say 5 psi and making 500hp now, So I can just turn up the boost gradualy and stop at about 800 or possible 900 hp. For you question on heat wise, Turbos will not cause excessive heat unless you are at full throttle at a substain period of time. 1/8 or 1/4 mile you'll be just fine but on a lake and screamin it from one side to the other, say good bye to your engine. The turbo or turbo's I'll be using are for short blast at a time. You can crusie with them and be fine, there want be lots of heat from the exhaust at that time and I plan on running a titanium exhaust that is ceramic coated and water cooled to. The intercooler will be simple air/water cooler it will be you ultimate choice to run this on a lake, I prefer it to be for drag racing or top speed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by racer

I know both Dave and Gordon and have a lot of respect for both but you need to understand they are making power at big rpm.

---

:iagree: BIG power a 1/4 mile at a time.

500hp with F1 reliability is much harder to obtain then 800hp for a 1/4. :thumbsup:

IMO a turbo engine will need to be ported different than a NA engine so a start at 450 might be a stretch. Power makes heat no way around that, sure a good innercooler will help. An omc block grows/shrinks a lot with temp change so keeping it consistent an even will be important cruising or running hard. Keeping cylinder pressure even may also be a chore considering the difference in the runners and the need for back pressure to keep the boosted charge in the cylinder. I dont think its going to be as easy as it sounds you think it will be to reach 900 and live, I have a feeling the front half will not hold the mains in place.

Here are some pics of my 2nd OMC, in Blue. My first was a 1967 33hp evinrude on my pencil garvey clam boat in 1983. I think it was white, the 33 didn't last long.
http://i55.tinypic.com/nd4tih.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/20ae16f.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/106f32x.jpg
People where looking at me funny the other day when i took my boys out fishing for stripped bass just off of Moriches Inlet. WTF hasn't anyone seen a 20' Hydrostream vegas in the ocean before? :eek: :D. BTW we picked up 2 fish one crab and home in 4 mins. No time waisted.

````````

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by racer

IMO a turbo engine will need to be ported different than a NA engine so a start at 450 might be a stretch. Power makes heat no way around that, sure a good innercooler will help. An omc block grows/shrinks a lot with temp change so keeping it consistent an even will be important cruising or running hard. Keeping cylinder pressure even may also be a chore considering the difference in the runners and the need for back pressure to keep the boosted charge in the cylinder. I dont think its going to be as easy as it sounds you think it will be to reach 900 and live, I have a feeling the front half will not hold the mains in place.

---

To me I see it hard to reach 900hp with it blowing apart but I was refering to Dave Bush. He has told Me on the stress testing of the 3.0L & 3.3L is not being stressed to it's ability yet and that was with his 450+hp engine and squeezing the juice at it. He said the dyno was a bit over 800hp on the bottle, Now I trust Dave because I got to know this man after and hour one day and hr and half few days later. His was the onee suggesting I start at his race engine and work from there, he will do the port work, and soon, I'm suppling the turbo goods and Four other people will be assisting to get this rt, This engine will be designed for racing only but if some guy THINKS he can adapt it to his semi-modified engine, then go for it. Will it work Don't know, I'm shootin for 600 plus hp and if some race wants more, that decision is up to guy who owns the boat and engine. I just want to start conservative and be safe and prove my point, it's possible without having tons of stuff hangin around the engine and have it computer controled.

I sold Dave his first looper in 1986, we talk almost weekly about different things. He has a lot on knowledge and the ability to put it to use. 450hp is what he built Gary his race engine is different, a lot more compression. I can tell you the front half starts to show issues on the ctr bearings even at 400, for short bursts you can get away with a lot more than holding them near peak.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by racer

I sold Dave his first looper in 1986, we talk almost weekly about different things. He has a lot on knowledge and the ability to put it to use. 450hp is what he built Gary his race engine is different, a lot more compression. I can tell you the front half starts to show issues on the ctr bearings even at 400, for short bursts you can get away with a lot more than holding them near peak.

---

I have one concern about that( showing issues on the center bearings at 400) Dave has mentioned, Him and Monty are pushing 800+ on nitrous now and there doing ok and not really stressing the block to it's limits yet but there getting close.:eek: I know if you have everthing balanced rt, there should'nt be alot of stress. I understand the engine is all aluminum and it comes in half, but its all roller, there is the big difference. I talked to Dave on the issue of the turbo or turbo's and like he said "to obtain 600hp from the turbo or turbo's should'nt have a problem and hell the possiblity of 800+ is there", but anything past that he does'nt think so:eek:. He told me he use to work with some of the guys at the formula 1 cars back when they ran turbos and still stay in contact with a guy at garrett turbo, and he has two turbo's rt now on his desk and possibly thinking of doing the same project:eek:. I was very surprized at that point.:thumbsup: I can one thing about that man, he is full of knowledge and he is not scared to talk to you one on one and tell you how it is.

Dave is a lot better with info than a few years back thats for sure, he has a lot of contacts. Its not a matter of balance. As power goes up parts are under more pressure which is in turn is trying to push the crank out the front. Since its a cast piece they tend to move and flex causing wear at the outer race to aluminum on the front half. Again not a problem for short bursts and an engine not expected to go 500 hours or more. Obtaining the power is not an issue, its how long and at what rpm you expect it to live at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by racer

As power goes up parts are under more pressure which is in turn is trying to push the crank out the front. Since its a cast piece they tend to move and flex causing wear at the outer race to aluminum on the front half. Again not a problem for short bursts and an engine not expected to go 500 hours or more.

---

So Al, is all the pressure on the front 1/2? Seems like someone could build a billet T-7075 front half to take those kind of stresses? Not to mention, you could clean up the intake. Maybe take a page out of the E-tec book for this?

White is wonderful but blue is also beautiful. :thumbsup:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k1...2391082825.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k1...-54-04_298.jpg

John

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STV_Keith

So Al, is all the pressure on the front 1/2? Seems like someone could build a billet T-7075 front half to take those kind of stresses? Not to mention, you could clean up the intake. Maybe take a page out of the E-tec book for this?

---

Funny you should mention that, I know of a guy in New Jersey that can make anything you want out of billet Aluminum. I recently called him on possible doing a custom set of heads for a 455 Big Block Buick for me. He said this to me, " I can make Dodge 426 Hemi heads that will have the same bore spacing as a buick if you want, it will cost only 5K and if you want a Billet 455 BBB I can do that to, I can make anything out of billet aluminum you want, it's only if you have the money and plans and layout of what you want. I have been doing all kinds of strange things since I got my CNC and waterjet and thats been 20 yrs ago." Remind you now, the owner of Brodix Cylinder heads in Mena,Arkansas sent me to this guy. I already had several guys had some work done by him and they are totally shocked on his work. They all told me it looks like it was stock for that particalur thing but polished up. I can PM his number if you want! Let me Know. Thank you for mentioning Billet piece's because it sounds like a task that this guy might be doing for me. All I gotta do is contact him now.:thumbsup:

Cutting it in the CNC is the easy part. Notice your guy said "if you have the money and plans and layout of what you want." The real work is in the design. If I had a CMM, I'd consider doing a lot of design work for projects, but I just can design stuff measuring hole centers and radii with a vernier caliper. I once started to design a replacement 2.5 front half, stock copy, but decided not to continue due to the fact that I wasn't sure everything would line up perfect. If I were in the design industry, I'd have a CMM and it would be a no-brainer, but I'm just an enthusiast and not willing to spend 10k to buy a CMM.

http://www.speedcraving.com/keith/me...ronthalf03.jpg

To offset my Merc postings, here's a few OMC pics. LOL

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3113206_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5744872_n.jpg

[/FONT]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by STV_Keith

Cutting it in the CNC is the easy part. Notice your guy said "if you have the money and plans and layout of what you want." The real work is in the design. If I had a CMM, I'd consider doing a lot of design work for projects, but I just can design stuff measuring hole centers and radii with a vernier caliper. I once started to design a replacement 2.5 front half, stock copy, but decided not to continue due to the fact that I wasn't sure everything would line up perfect. If I were in the design industry, I'd have a CMM and it would be a no-brainer, but I'm just an enthusiast and not willing to spend 10k to buy a CMM.

http://www.speedcraving.com/keith/me...ronthalf03.jpg

---

Who did the plan or should I say CAD drawing? I would like someone do a OMC 3.0L Back half with Yamaha exhaust instead OMC and have the exhaust cavity open. There is alot of potential in both brands and I love to mix and match to see what the out come would be. Thats a kick but cad drawing by the way.

Attachment 236103Attachment 236102


Attachment 236101


Here on the Susquehana River all the guys run the outboard jets to run shallow but they are so slow. So I decided to build a shallow runner that is a little more speedy,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gmcgruther

[/FONT]
Who did the plan or should I say CAD drawing? I would like someone do a OMC 3.0L Back half with Yamaha exhaust instead OMC and have the exhaust cavity open. There is alot of potential in both brands and I love to mix and match to see what the out come would be. Thats a kick but cad drawing by the way.

---

I drew it at home when I had some spare time, once. LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by perfmarine1

Attachment 236103Attachment 236102


Attachment 236101


Here on the Susquehana River all the guys run the outboard jets to run shallow but they are so slow. So I decided to build a shallow runner that is a little more speedy,

---

You at the wrong end of the Susquehanna

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riverratt

You at the wrong end of the Susquehanna

---

na you are,we have deep water down here but best fishing is in the shallows around all the rocks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by perfmarine1

na you are,we have deep water down here but best fishing is in the shallows around all the rocks.

---

We have some real good fishing right below the Fabridam and the Shady Nook area. There is usually a tournament every weekend up hear out of the shikellamy state park marina.

Ralph,fishing below the dam will be getting real good since its catch and release only for bass,and you prob. know that goes down to Md.border. Boy the torunment guys are mad cuz they cant have torunments.I have been slaming the bass down here last 2 sundays,fishing has never been better,and they say the population is down????????? I been wanting to ask you if you know Wayne ,use to run a Vectorw/2.4HP,then STV,now I Think a DCB w/twins. He is real good at blowing up merc's. If you know him say hi. He use to stop by my shop and say hi but I have not talked to him in a while. Happy boating!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by perfmarine1

Ralph,fishing below the dam will be getting real good since its catch and release only for bass,and you prob. know that goes down to Md.border. Boy the torunment guys are mad cuz they cant have torunments.I have been slaming the bass down here last 2 sundays,fishing has never been better,and they say the population is down????????? I been wanting to ask you if you know Wayne ,use to run a Vectorw/2.4HP,then STV,now I Think a DCB w/twins. He is real good at blowing up merc's. If you know him say hi. He use to stop by my shop and say hi but I have not talked to him in a while. Happy boating!

---

Wayne and I are good friends and boat together. He now owns a jewelery store in Sunbury on the island. You should come up and hang out with us some time or maybe meet up with us when we go to Raystown in september for the weekend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riverratt

Wayne and I are good friends and boat together. He now owns a jewelery store in Sunbury on the island. You should come up and hang out with us some time or maybe meet up with us when we go to Raystown in september for the weekend.

---

I though you would know him,he has done very well selling bling. That sounds like fun,I am very buisy this time of year working 12hr days trying to keep up with all the boat work,but we will see if it holds out.Normely I wont get near Raystown on a weekend cuz of the croud,we boat there weekdays only.Sept may not be bad,we like going to the 1000 islands in sept for a week,but with gas this hi that would be expensive,so we may do Raystown this year. I will keep in touch,say hi to Wayne,is he on S&F? Hey pm me from here out so we don't clog up this thread.

Attachment 243734heres mine... repainting right now

81 viper originaly brown flake redone in jel-coat Idid everything except spraying.

Quote:

---

81 viper originaly brown flake redone in jel-coat Idid everything except spraying.

---

beautiful.

Movin on up :D

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...320_153808.jpg

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...917_181306.jpg

New addition :thumbsup:

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...923_175447.jpg

gone green! :thumbsup:

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...120_143807.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...120_143819.jpg

very nice ride....... have to put a check in the "like" column........

Thanks :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baja200merk

gone green! :thumbsup:

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...120_143819.jpg

---

I've got some spare glasses if you want to try and center the snout under the skirt, or vice versa....

Light/shade does funny things to a picture but you need some thicker glasses, its centered :thumbsup:

What are you gonna whine about next the bent cavitation plate, hand print on the brand new never on the water cowling or the bondo torque tab?

I was gonna do them one at a time. It ain't centered:D