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THANKS! She has been alittle side project of mine... about 50% done at this point.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by QuarterHorse
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...DSC01678-1.jpg
A full size looper V6 will be an extream hand full on a vector even in stock trim.
I would say to not worry about modding the motor and focus on setup and your driving skill first. Cuz a stock 200GT is capable of ALOT and on a vector..... some would say more than the hull can handle.:D
Nice, I've built a bobber last winter and had a stretched 'Busa and a modded VMax the two summers before that. Right now I have a boat to build but I do have a Yamaha XS 650 motor/frame to chop up, just no time/money with the boat.
As far as the 200 goes, I agree, but I'm a gear head and was just wondering. Carb swaps/cut the heads down etc.... :D
It depends on what you currently have but a better intake and carbs might be the first step.
But a big looper is Alot of engine for a vector;)
white :pQuote:
Originally Posted by QuarterHorse
I just pulled this off the ByUBoyz site. It's Raptors and he's going to their Winter Nationals in Houston with it next weekend for the 1st time.
The word "EVIL" comes to mind. Looks like Galen's been at it again ;)
I'm flying in to watch and make a couple passes in some friends boats.
1/4 Horse, this site will tell you some basics about your motor.
http://2strokeonly.com/
<a href="http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/?action=view¤t=IMG_0042.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/IMG_0042.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
very nice im a merc man but hp is hp nomatter what breed it comes from
:eek::eek: missed that thread gary lol that biotch is bad!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Instigator
Thanks, I'll do some reading later tonight!Quote:
Originally Posted by Instigator
Since this thread is all mighty whity engines, Has anyone done cut the Exhaust cavity off of one of the V-6's yet? If so please post a picture of it for me.
Monty Racing in FL has done a lot of them. Builds his own exhaust manifolds and/or stacks for them. Not sure anyone will post pics though...lots of effort/money/R&D in that.
White Power!!:cool:
I don't want to see anyone's exhaust manifolds at all, All I want is to see is what it looks like inside of a stock omc 200. Nothing more. If thats to much to ask, Then I guess I'll have to cut one my self and post it. There is no secret in a bone stock exhaust cavity. Wow, I'm glad the blacky guy's have balls to show there stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by STV_Keith
Blacky guys for balls to show there's ?.... So but a merc and start a thread... You didn't say you wanted a stock pic of a exhaust cavity... You asked if anyone had done it and kieth told you one person and dave bush is another...
What I meant was that the only reason someone has cut one open was to make their own manifolds, stacks. Search for pics of Jack Barsh and Monty Racing or Gordon Montague. I've never seen a pic of Dave Bush's exhaust chest, so that might be harder to find.Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcgruther
You wont see a pic of Dave's he welds the stock chest back on and keeps his pipe water cooled. Montys is a ton of work and is FAR from stock so it is a horrible example of stock runners/pipe. There is a bunch of work that can be done to make big power even on the newer blocks with even smaller runners but they are not gonna post that here.
U wanna know what a stock block looks like? 6 runners going into a "tuner" covered by an exhaust chest :D There were different blocks over the yrs some work better than others depending on what your looking to do and how hard you wanna turn them.
i have a picture in my head:D:D:D:D.... all i will say is who ever did it,,, no name's.. just the way i am, but was very very nice work:thumbsup: and has proven it's self very well... better yet i will draw a picturehttp://i745.photobucket.com/albums/x...unny/After.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by baja200merk
Simple phone calls do wonders. All I can say is, the inside of the exhaust cavity looks nothing like Mercury's and it does have a factory Tri-y header:thumbsup:. Thanks you guy's you really helped me more ways then you think. By the way some are closed deck and others are open deck..Quote:
Originally Posted by baja200merk
Here is my v-6
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...ofIMG_1406.jpg
us1ss that is purdy:thumbsup:how does it run? Rick
Perhaps definitions are a problem. I would describe it as a pair of 3 into 1 headers for each bank of three cylinders. Both then dump into the midsection. Same 120 degree tuning principle as the Mercury.Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcgruther
That has nothing in common with what I would call a "tri-y". As used on an inline 4 or one side of a automotive V8, a "tri-y" is a 4 into 2 into 1 which is nothing like a V6 outboard exhaust. The outboad V6 is more like the traditional 4 into 1 car header except it is a three cyliner.
Not to sound cocky but don't the 3 into one dump directly in one cavity? If not, I stand corrected then( A simple header.) The Mercury does not have the same system, remove any exhaust plate on a Mercury and see all three dump at once( not individaully like a omc) then into a tuner then dumps in to single area. Mercury is more of a simple vehicle exhaust manifold not a header design.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryStrawn
I have to ask this because it seems you don't know what the inside of the exhaust cavity of a OMC looks like? For one, each cylinder dumps directly into its own exhaust pipe should I say header pipe, on that particalure bank (which there is three), then dumps in a single opening for that side(Collector), same go's for the other side. then it go's in to a tuner(Collector extension). The two different blocks are open deck and closed deck. One has bigger ports then the other. I did find this out by making a few phone calls. All I needed was the resource's to get this going and I found them. Thank you guy's. It's been a bumpy road from the start but life is not easy. If I came off sounding arrogant, I'm sorry, I miss place words or type the wrong words and sound that away. In the futhure if I do the same please ask me to reword it to not to sound arrogant. I don't know everything but I do have the resource's to have things done and I need some guidence at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by baja200merk
Do you need an explanation of how 120 degree exhaust tuning works on a three cylinder two stroke?Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcgruther
Please do, But remember we are speaking of a 2 stroke v-6. Remind you I do know what a OMC exhaust looks like in the exhaust cavity! Thanks to someone very special. No names mentioned but he did Ray Leach's engine! Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryStrawn
Had a lot help from a lot of good people! The latest part of the project is getting close to completed. We managed to make a trim system that is much faster. Reduced the time from fully tucked under to neutral, 2.5-3 seconds to about 1 second. The boat is more manageable and quicker now on take off.
Beginning of last year
http://youtu.be/ywOB6z2_Qc4
Third and last day of tuning at Havazoo, Az.
Last year at Lake Shasta, Ca.
http://youtu.be/RkIaIr5nTr4
WAR10 May 2010 Trim was to slow to tuck under and take off, boat just laid on it's side until trim caught up.
Last weekend after fixing two problems.
http://youtu.be/49-FxypAKQE
New trim system.
Same
http://youtu.be/xuV5dBiTWdI
Single ram on 24 volts.
Now I have to slow down the 12 volt system because it's too fast to fine tune the trim. Have a coil of 10 guage wire probably 30' long with a tap at probably 20'. Drops the voltage = slows the trim pump motor.
I have ordered a speed controller(Pulse Modulation) so I can fine tune it and not burn up the trim motor.
A special thanks to Dave, Andy and Stan and numerous others that have helped on this project.
Gary
For exhaust tuning purposes, most folks think of a V6 as two three cylinders joined with a common crankshaft. Any interaction down in the midscetion where both banks dump has no effect. How the three cylinders in each bank interact is the important part.Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcgruther
This is from an old SAE paper written by two OMC engineers that explains the basics.
Fig 6 shows a port timing diagram for a three cylinder engine firing at 120 degree intervals. The diagram shows that just prior to the closing of the exhaust port of one cylinder, the exhaust port opens in a succeeding cylinder creating a positive pressure pulse in the exhaust manifold. Fig 7 shows the sequence of these positive pressure pulses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryStrawn
Thanks for the information but The exhaust does'nt look anywhere near like that one picture, it has one pipe per exhaust leading to one on one side and same goes for the other side, the top exhaust goes in a casted aluminum pipe going down, the center goes in casted aluminum pipe going straight foward and the Bottom exhaust goes in a casted aluminum pipe going up which they all join in the center of the exhaust cavity and same goes for the other side, then they have a down spout going down to a tuner which is located in the midsection below the power head. Beside's that the engine does'nt fire all three on one side then goe's to the other side. it's two and one the other side does the samething. so it's firing two on one side and one on the otherside then vise versa. Always having a pulse signal.
75HP Stinger looking for a new home
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...00_0008-14.jpg
Good luck with your project.
I dont know what it looks like? :rolleyes: Even after watching monty's process on a sister motor to one of leach's pipe motors?Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcgruther
The runners and chests changed quite a bit over the years, the smallest displacement v6 loopers have the best flowing exhaust chest.
I think I am going to regret posting this, but the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6. Think about it for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcgruther
http://static.divbyzero.nl/facepalm/doublefacepalm.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by gmcgruther
its not a 2.5 merc :nonod:
Barry: Thanks for posting that pic. It is truly amazing how so few people understand what is going on there. It is the heart of of the exceptional performance a 6 cylinder 2 stroke has to offer, or a 3 cylinder for that matter.
gmac, you say it doesnt look like an OMC and you are right.
BUT, you need to study it very carefully, the shape might be slightly different but they do the same thing with the same benefical effect on performance.
Ok, Let me explain something to you, I six pictures of leachs engine as it was first cut then rewelded, sent by monty him self after I talked to him after a hr and a half on my project i want to do, oh by the way ford V-8 1234 ON ONE SIDE THEN 5678 ON THE OTHER SIDE DOES THAT MEAN ITS FIRING THE SAME WAY. THE FIRING ORDER MIGHT BE 123456 BUT I bet the number one cylinder is the opposite side of number two. Dave Bush and I talked for a hr and a half today, trust me,I have been schooled on way the exhaust works and why it will be difficult to get any large amount of power unless we use stinger pipes then we can see some good power and if we can figure out the exhaust like yamaha did on the 2 strokes we could be lookin at 1000+hp and room to play. yes Dave and I talked long and hard about every aspect of this project and the no go's and possiblities. Both Monty and Dave are full of knowledge and I got to pick at it and get information on where to go to get more. Don't get me wrong I'm not a know it all but when I get my information from this guy's, I think there alittle more well tuned then you and I. Yes there is reverse pulse's but not do to what you think, Thats why a stinger pipe will make thee best supercharger effect on the exhaust side. Just call Dave and get schooled and same goes with Monty, call him to and they'll have a very close if not the same thing to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by baja200merk
Maybe you should look at Yamaha's exhaust on there two strokes compare that to OMC exhaust! As Dave said to me, "If we can get the same exhaust as Yamaha has, the 3.3L would of been 600 hp bone stock." Yes thats what Dave said. now think about that. There making 300 to 385 hp N/A on three cylinders now add 3 more. There turbo two stroke has hit 400 already and it's not on kill yet and it's a three cylinder. So yes two strokes are a wonderful thing if OMC AND MERC would do there homework they could be extremely fast too.Quote:
Originally Posted by 6Killer
Epic fail. But good luck with the project and please post pictures.
I'm not here to do a pissin match, I'm having Either Dave or Monty build the engine to there 450 hp spec's and then we are adding on the turbo, Either way both said they won't mind being part of the project, I did call both for the information That I got. And the Exhaust chest has to be similar to Ray Leach's but with two stinger pipes, One for each side (Twin Turbo) or two stinger pipes leading to one Turbo. Monty and Dave gave me a wealth of knowledge that I still have a hard time trying to figure out. Between all the resource's I have know, they all want to see if this will work. By the way what's so epic fail? I was correct, two fire on one side and one on the the other then vise versa. So what the firing order is 123456, the order of the cylinders are not the same. It's like a chevy #1 on one side and #2 on the other and so on. I will post picture's of Turbo system but have to get permission from either Dave or Monty on the engine, depending on which one builds the engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryStrawn
I know Monty and he's built a pair of V8's for me, and I certainly know of Dave Bush, even though I've never met the man. They both do top notch work in my book. That being said, if I were doing this type of project, I'd have the exhaust chest work done to mate it to the turbo, but leave as much of the rest of it alone as possible. Starting with a 250-300hp stock package, the turbo will add from 100-300 more HP. I think at that point, you'd be pushing the limits of the block, internals, etc. Starting with something that makes 450hp, you are going to stress those parts to the limit even sooner, with less boost.
I guess what I'm thinking is:
stock HP + turbo = 400-600hp, depending on boost
Dave/Monty power + low boost turbo = 500-600hp, depending on boost
Dave/Monty power + high boost turbo = 600+hp
The point is, if the end HP goal is the same, and you assume that the internals are going to hang on to the power (disregarding what the gearcase may think about it), then it would be cheaper to just do the exhaust mods you require and add boost, then to mod and then add boost. Take a 450hp NA motor and add boost, and you could have the potential for 800+. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way under the sun that an OMC would stay together with that kind of power.
Either way, good luck. It's certainly a fun project, if you have the funds to see it through. At the very least, you'll be one of VERY few who have done it, and will have some info that few have. If it runs well and lives, you'll have a real monster there. :)
You fail to understand the firing order and cylinder numbering. "two fire on one side and one on the the other then vise versa" is wrong. Forget about Ford and Chevy V8s The cylinders are 135 in a bank and 246 in the other. Firing 1-2-3-4-5-6 means it fires a cylinder in one bank, then one from the other bank and back and forth. Each bank has three cylinders separated by 120 degrees and a cylinder fires every 60 degrees. Not really that difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcgruther
I was correct, two fire on one side and one on the the other then vise versa. So what the firing order is 123456, the order of the cylinders are not the same. It's like a chevy #1 on one side and #2 on the other and so on. I will post picture's of Turbo system but have to get permission from either Dave or Monty on the engine, depending on which one builds the engine.
This above statement is total BS. It is nothing like a chevy. Chevy is 4 stk.firing order 18436572,crank turns 2 times per power stroke. 2 stroke crank around tdc fires 1-2 then crank turnes 1/3 turn and 3-4 fires then crank turnes 1/3 turn and fires 5/6 and thats 1 turn of crank. cyls do not fire one on one side and two on the other somebody needs to go back too school just look at v-6 crank!!!!!!!!