I have this if you decide to go twin wing on your steering.
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I have this if you decide to go twin wing on your steering.
:thumbsup: Agreed. Now Onward Christian Soldier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Pitt
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: marching, yes sir;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G
whos got a digital scale local that I can borrow? that boat on and off thing is a pain
george??? where are you?
thats a cool piece thank you for the offer, but brother Mcnights pro seastar is fineQuote:
Originally Posted by Greg G
what I really want to know what props do you have, do you believe I had a wall of props for sob's I sold them all Im down to a 30 4blade et, and a 28 trophy, here I go again, "JUST WHEN I THOUGHT I WAS OUT OF IT, THEY DRAGGED ME BACK IN" quote from Michael Corleone, Godfather 3 I cant beleive every time Im flipping channels, and GF 1 or GF 2 is on, I stop and watch them, maybe I can make Tuff "an offer?, he cant refuse"Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G
I'll do that , but honestly , I was / am more interested in your actions . I understand you were let down by your trip across the border ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Pitt
Not exact history , but you wanted info on the 400R , not out there in big enough numbers to get "owner feedback" . Lots of opinions , closest to reality I saw was Toffen with Verado 350 info.
What brought you down off the ledge from ordering a pair like you showed heavy interest in ..?
About the same time , maybe a lil later ,you brought up the new Ollie/Ralph/OMC/BRP Evenrudes. Also too new to get reliable, fact based info on.
What made you pull the trigger in that direction .. ?
You seemed pretty hot for 28 foot outboard V-hull in either single or double configuration over that of IO's or turbines . ;)
A few different very nice hull were mentioned , and I got the impression that money really wasn't a major concern. And that you were in no way looking to go used.
What made you decide to pursue a Tuff 28 .. ?
As Greg T. mentioned , Tuff has been around at least a decade . Yet over the last few years , when mentioned ( maybe once a year ) I would look on their web site , only to find the same 21 and 28 that had been posted for years . Honestly , I thought they were for the most part out of the boat building business , yet kept the site , hoping for better days down the road.
I was suprized to see the white with black trim IO 28 in your captured demo add.
When you contacted them , did you inquire about buying new .. ?
I take it that you were pushed (over the phone) twords a 28 demo that could be had "for a great deal" . Is that the case .. ?
Didn't you find it odd you could have that demo boat as either IO or outboard .. ?
Obviously something went wrong in communication. Availability, pricing, what exactly you get for what amount of money. Sometimes that gets lost in the enthusiasm to sell a unit , just as " I cant wait for my new toy" tends to, at times, block out the customers hearing .
I wont ask for percentage's ... I already know your answer .. :smiletest:
Sometime in all of this, you went for a ride in the kids 21. You living on Long Island and having owned a (or a few) 21 Superboat's .
Were you really that impressed that you completely abandoned a twin engine 28 and sought out the "only" Tuff 21 in the United States ..?
As well as rig it with a motor you can't really touch ( lots of BRP peeps on this board, many lurkers) for seven years .
I guess it's somewhat redundant , but what was the draw to that combo .. ?
You really don't expect to get any "factory help" as a "second hand customer" and your less than stellar review of "your Canadian vacation" , do you .. ?
I know your pizzed , but no need in baiting the kid in here by sayin how nice of a boat he has and then throwing him under the bus for trying to get some free advertizment .. no question here , just an observation ... :(
Wait , I do have a question .. :D
How many times have you typed the word "Tuff" in the last 30 days .. ?
When I called John Cohen to buy a new pair of decals for my ( now Lou's blue and white) freshly painted 21. He asked me if I wanted to become a dealer. It would only take a few units. I thanked him for the offer and told him I really only needed a few factory decals . I also mentioned that I thought that Diamond Marine was his south Fla. dealer. he said that they haven't sold one of his boats since 1995.
With that . and the fact that your right there , I really am surprized that you didn't approach him about doing a new 21 for you. But your way you wanted , changes like the windshield/ dash area , target weight etc ..
I know that there is a cult like following of SOB V-21's in the North East as well as the Virgin Islands . No one really knew what my Superboat was unless they were from New York. Some guy at the gas station once thought I had something to do with SBI , said he saw the race on TV .. :eek:
At time's I really miss that boat. Your Tuff looks really nice , aint tellin ya what to do , but you should concentrate on enjoying it instead of hammering on a hull manufacture , that has by your own definition only sold one unit here in the last ten years ... :thumbsup:
My shop number is 772-221-9328 M.-F. 9 - 5
Unless I need an afternoon nap .. :D
Holy smokes you must have needed a nap after that my friend:D
Yep..... It's just a boat. Rig it, run it, and enjoy it. It's not rocket science......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Pitt
JC has a scale at the superboat factor. It can hang your boat from front and rear for total weight and how much is stern compared to bow.
I'm sure you know someone that can sneak you in there....
Chaz let me start by saying this is by no means an attack on you or your creadibility, but your questions have the markings of a colabareation of more than one person, but be that as it may Im going try and follow your questions and see were this goes,
the trip "across the border" was not a letdown, in fact it was quit educational, the dialogue I created on the 4ooR was pruly for entertainment, an idea, a concept, at the inception of that thread I already knew a great deal about the 400r and releized it was not for me, that motor was never an option,on any boat, but I pushed it on a conceptual level because of one" know it all" (you know exactly who im talking about dont you?) The Evenrudes as you call them "Ollie/Ralph/OMC/BRP's" were never in the mix as far as the DEMO 28 tuff goes, I pulled the trigger on Evenrude only AFTER the 28 Tuff went by the way side, By the way I/O's were never an option;), even though our leader was a staunch advicate of them, you see Chaz I was going to lay off the cry baby but after reading your questions I think Im going to have to renegade on taking the better part of valor concerning him,I just needed to say that so you both will have no misconception as far as where Im coming from,
Back to your questions, sometime in early July after selling my kyptonite someone mentioned that Tuff had a Demo for sale never knowing about that boat pior to July of this year. When I contacted Mark, we never discused NEW, for the record there were some 30 emails and in excess of 15 phone calls, pior to my wasted Trip,(which for the record cost more than $1000.00)I know anyone in my position would be "PIZZED" you state maybe I was "Pushed" towards the demo 28, not so, I initiated the contact souly on the demo boat, nothing else.
I knew from day one the demo lived as a ob and an I/O, why would that concern me ? I was entertaining a boat from an manufacturer,he build it, he suggested the boat was for sale in either configuration, so based on Tuffs manufacturing techniqes and according to him, it was never an issue.
I dont consider omission a lack of communication, its a form of a lie,and Im way beyond the "New Toy syndrome", my business decisions are based on the merit of the transaction, not the excitement or thrill of the purchase.
I did ride in both 28 and "the Kids 21", as I have unequivocally stated in pior threads,they were very impressive, my opinion of the product was always consisent through out my threads.
After the 28 deal went sideways, I recontacted John McNight, and not because of "THE RIDE" in 21, I consumated a deal on the Mcnight boat.
You talk about factory help, factory help from a company outside the US? it wouldnt matter whos boat, it would have to go back at the owners expence, so i never considered that, nor was it something that I expected or negociated,.
The kid was being used by his father, for the benifit of the company, as I stated in pior comments, he was affored a potential customer as a result of this website, you dont think I had pior conversations with Greg before as you say I threw him under the bus? He should be admonished for doing his fathers backdoor advertizing....
I probably typed the word Tuff a hundred times, in the last 30 days, because Tuff The boat was never the issue,its one of the finest boats I have ever seen I bought one didnt I? and at a price not for the faint hearted.
as far as John Cohen maybe I would have entertained a 21 Superboat I know that I have personally bought more NEW Superboats than any single person or any dealer for that matter, but the deck mold as far as i know is inoperable and has been that way for many years, but saying that i wouldnt hesitate doing business with Cohen as i have many times in the past, the hammering of the manufacturer is jusifiable,based on his actions, and lack there of, not mine, his sales or lack of are not product based I assure you, I found it quite reasurring that after this thread I was contacted by a number of people who like me, have had personal and or business dealings with Tuff, and have reaffirmed my opinion reguarding his business practices, you say at times you miss your 21, for that very reason, is why I went back to one, the draw to the combo is pruly esthetics, and reliability, I appriciate your invatation to contact you but after this Im the one who needs a nap:D
thanks doc, Im on itQuote:
Originally Posted by dnelson964
Rocket science, thats hilarious, dont get me started, but yes your right:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by XstreamVking
So what exactly did the founder and owner of Tuff Boats (Mark W) do that was so bad?
Did he advertise the used 28 footer demo boat as being for sale and then, after you flew up to Canada to sea trial the used 28 and decided you liked it, tell you he would not sell it to you and would only be able to build you a brand new 28 at twice the price?
Tuff Boats needs to purchase a Vendor Subscription to S+F