Rich you think there is any advantage to widening the pad? Isnt Joes pad wider on his SB?Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
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Rich you think there is any advantage to widening the pad? Isnt Joes pad wider on his SB?Quote:
Originally Posted by T2x
noQuote:
Originally Posted by vnemous
By the way the fastest 21 is Joe Imprescia's. That hull is ultra light and has seen close to 110 with a 300X........ He has had it for years and it has no bottom mods that I know of.....The Intimidator is right out of the Shadow mold and that is also fast...although there is some concern about construction as I understand it.
Bottom line....the hulls were correct as molded. Unless you think you are smarter than George....leave them alone. He had a reason for EVERY inch of that boat.
T2x
I'm not sure I'm smarter than a 5th grader much less George.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by T2x
I think 80 is pretty respectible for my boat. George Fuller drove it to 78 in fresh water bouncing off the rev limiter. He was the second owner of my boat back in the 80's and said it the fastest he ever drove it even when he had it. Plus it loves the rough stuff.
It all depends on what you need out of a SOB in the <22 range. Each has a micro-niche depending on the intended use. That said, incredible options currently for sale in CA, FL, SC and most likely more coming on line as winter hits.
The 21 Challenger is about as straight forward a design as it gets. Your basic 21 1/2 degree constant deadrise vee. No stepped transom. An undersized 6" wide pad that does very little for overall hydrodynamic hull lift, until the highest speeds were reached. The pad and lifting strake edges weren't tooled with the sharpest corners. Basic transom angle of 11 degrees. Basic motor/splashwell design. A very simple, basic deck design. Nothing to it. It was, and is still, not a design that any aerodynamics need come into play, because in 1976, the boats speeds were simply not there. The windshield & graphics styling helped introduce a size boat that did not exsist yet for the new outboards, that is all. The build quality was good, what it needed to be , for that envirement. By todays marine design standards, its just one of many older shapes that should only be recognized for what it is, an old shape of fiberglas reinforced plastic. Anyone that would go to production, and copy this boat in any shape or form, won't be moving forward in the boat manufacturing business. But there will always be some tard out there, that will do just that. Build a few boats and fizzle out. Seen it a hundred times. Anyways, why did we get off topic on this thread?? Its supposed to be all about the 22' Velocity's. Wonder why nobody ever pulls a set of molds from a 22 Velocity? It is not, I repeat NOT, a patented "Stepp" design.
[quote=vnemous;1497815]But alot of these guys are notching there transom and widening their pad. I was looking at the Velocity RLC bought and my friend Marc (waterboy1) and they are bigger than mine. Just thought, with the notch and pad they should be a little faster. My Challenger is a tank and I bet it weighs pretty close to an early Velocity.
Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of things you can do to to get more speed. I don't doubt there are 21 foot hulls that will do 90-100. I don't know that I would want to be on one...LOL
I was thinking of the next model up, the 24 with the 24 degree hull. That's actually the one I like, I've seen it with twins and it needs them.
Sorry but the deadrise is not constant.......and the deadrise is also compound curved going forward........ the pad does work...or at least as well as the Velocity's..... and you may call it staright forward...but aside from the transom....built to outboard manufacturer's specs like everybody else........and the rear planing area...... you won't find a straght line on the boat....which costs much more to create...than a series of soul less ( and cheap) straight lines. One more thing ......You couldn't tool really sharp corners into a mold back then...you had to sharpen them after removal...... Even today you risk damaging the corners if your mold is too fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by AirRide
Sometimes simplicity and elegance go hand in hand....and sometimes people take masterpieces for granted. Compared to any boat before it...The Challenger was revolutionary.
Sorry to hi jack your thread...... and no criticism intended for the Velocity...In fact, it would be my second choice. But if you think the Challenger was not outstanding you don't know the boat, nor the business.
T2x
Getting off subject but yet again, I guess the crutch of my point is, the 21 Challenger design, which I am very familiar with, wasn't any more well designed or tooled, than many other quality small performance v-bottoms built before or after. I should know since my livelyhood has involved these specific hulls in question, and hundreds of others, including the original Stepp AND Regal Velocity's, from the application of mold release agent, through to customer delivery and driving to the bank to deposit his check, for over 35 years. A business I enjoy & I've never left, as some do. We'll leave it at that.
What speeds is everyone getting with the Merc 300XS or 300X?
Here is a pic of my project, 85 stepp 22' velocity, its going to be very simple and bare. Race hatch, 2 seats, steering wheel, and a foot peddle :thumbsup: (and rigging)
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/IMG_0505.jpg
Nice project ! IMHO ...skip the race hatch ...need room for women and coolers ! Or at least build in the option!:thumbsup:
Hey,
I've lived with all 3:
Really liked the 22 Velocity V6 Merc/ Liked it better wit a V8 (when they ran)
The 22 Apache with a v8 was bullet proof in the rough if you could take what the boat did. Unbelievable.
I loved my 82 21 Shadow. Fast, fun, Flew higher and ran faster with the V8 (when they ran) than the 2 above.
With a Goodmans nitrous shot in the low 90mph range and dual cable steering Whoa Baby! Lots a bolts in the carrier
Years ago these 2 guys come up on either side. Ones got a 32 Fountain the other is in a 29 Baja. Obviously with serious motors. I step it up on the gas to 75mph and I can see they are about done. I back off a little and hit the button. I will never forget the look on the faces as I backed off and spanked them again.
Once at the beach after the run the conversations were a little less boisterous. Fun!
Sweet boat!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeylarge
Any more pics? What power?
Hey Scott,Quote:
Originally Posted by scott reierson
How would you compare the Apache and the others in the rough? I gather the Apache was a little better because it was built heavier? Which of the three would you buy if you're looking for an all-around 75 mph boat and aren't super concerned with huge speed?
Great thread, by the way! Very informative!
David :thumbsup:
Apache or Challenger/shadow/superboat. That wide pad on the velocity has got to hurt in the rough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY
Not as bad as you would think as long as you run them "flat"!!
Define "rough"..........
If your normal conditions are 1-2 foot chop that is one thing. If you can quickly get 2-4 foot rollers in the normal daily outing, that is something different.
Most of the options are built for 1-2 and run very comfortably with a family on board in that type of water.
Well, back where my parents live on Cape Cod, 3-4' rollers are pretty common. I suppose no 21-22' boat will be very good in that water. Here in NYC, it seems like calmer water prevails. If they're all basically the same, I suppose it's just a matter of what's available.
Thanks,
David
I rode in a 28 or 29 foot velocity, it too had a wide pad like the 22.Quote:
Originally Posted by DKerns
I would take my 24' boat with a narrow pad over that 28-29 ANY day. Running Flat or not. I thought the boat rode harsh and pounded pretty hard.
I do however agree that in a 1' they should all be about equal, 2' I think you will start to see/feel a difference 3-4's and It's starting to get real rough in my 24.
As we all know the pad helps with top speed, not the chop.
In a following sea I actually run a little negative trim and a bit more throttle and it feels really smooth actually. The cool factor is high when you hear the motor rip out occasionally.
Going head on isn't for the faint of heart though, you need to really get on it,,, get it flat,,, and trust the hull strength. I would like to move some weight further forward in these conditions, but I don't think the batteries will take the pouding. I move my seat up a few inches, I'm 230 pounds, but that does really help...LOL...I need to eat more I guess...LOL
Answering your questions
#1 I'd take my old Shadow, It was such a blast to drive. and with the new 300HP motors it would be like driving a big hydro stream
But I would probably really want Joey I's boat
Then Foleys old boat
That 24 LD that Roktoys got really looks like it runs good.
The 24 Super boats although narrow are affordale and great in rough water.
But I like speed. Flyin a 21-22 V over the big stuff is a rush but you take a beating.
Scott
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/IMG_0508.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by DKerns
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/IMG_0506.jpg
excuse the quality of the pictures, they are from the day i picked the boat up, and as far as power is concerned, I have a carb'd 225 3 liter for now, and I am going to take it from there :thumbsup:
If you want to be smaller then the 24x7's then these are all great options I would think.
1. Velocity 22 w/250 priced at $19,900
Step down cabin and high freeboard plus freshwater use only
2. DCB Extreme 22 w/300 priced at $19,800
Only DCB O/B hull ever built, massive cockpit with closed transom, and a huge cabin, deep V with a pad and a step
3. Randy's Rallysport w/300 priced at $16,500
Incredible condition and a bargain price
Now I realize they are not "Stepp" boats but I would think that giving up 5-10 mph would be ok for the most part when you consider what you get in return. It seems to be impossible to find a Challenger, and the only mint, fully restored Superboat 21 out there is $30k and under lock and key in LI.
Now if you really want to go on the "Hunt for Red October" go try and find a west coast Warlock or Howard. They both made a 23 foot Offshore.
Isn't speed sort of the crux of the issue? It seems that any of the 21-22' boats we're discussing here will run 80+ with a 300 hp motor. It seems like you'd be hard pressed to get any of the 24 x 7 boats (or a Banana Boat, for that matter) to run much more than 70 with the same power. I guess it all depends on what you're looking for...
David
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeylarge
Thanks for the pics. Should be a nice ride when it's done. My 22 is an I/O. I like the all white!! Good Luck with it!
Superbash's 24 superboat ran 78 with a 300xQuote:
Originally Posted by dba900
Not a Stepp, but ................loaded if you want an I/O
1990 Regal Velocity 23' - 80mph boat
This 23' Regal Velocity hot rod has it all - a built Tyler Crockett big block, Imco Headers, Gary Williams Carb, MSD Ignition, with only 82 hours on the new motor. This boat has lots of great options like Latham Steering, Imco Lower Unit, Merc Lab finish prop, drive shower, dual ram trim tabs with indicators, K-thottle with trim switch, Livorsi GPS Speedo, compass, depth finder, JVC deck, Pioneer CD shuttle, VDO Gauges, Auto Halon fire Ext, 2 offshore batt boxes, auto hatch, built in cooler, porta-pottie, Bimini Top, full custom covers and a tandam trailer. This boat is turn key ready to go. Marina has maintained this one owner boat since 1991, we have all the records. Was maintained very well like in and out service in the summer and in-door storage in the winter. The hull and gelcoat is perfect - detailed twice a year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg G
How much??? Pictures???? I had a 230 Regal Velocity in 1988...it was one of the most fun boats I've owned!!!
I have an 84 velocity that runs 85 on GPS with a 2008 E-tec 250 HO. The question I have is how can I tell if my boat has a kevlar hall.
P.S the boat is for sale if anyone is interested.
http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...1&d=1221654002http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...1&d=1221654601
Call the factory or check with Ted Link @ Link's Marine. He owned that boat for quite a while and would know!!Quote:
Originally Posted by berthiaumem
http://linksmarine.com/
Dwayne
Just curious what prop , gear ratio and RPM were you running 85 mph with a 250 ? approx how much fuel on board ? Thanks .Quote:
Originally Posted by berthiaumem
2 people with a half tank of gas and a worked 29 SRX and a vented lower unit with a bobs machaine shop nose cone and the gear ratio is 1.86 and turning 6200 RPM
http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...1&d=1221654002http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...1&d=1221654601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Foley
His boat is a very light lay up if I remember correctly. Don't know if that makes a difference!?!? Ran right around 100 with a healthy V8 hanging on it!!
100 ??? With a refrigerator on it ????:eek: "Vented Lower Unit " ??????? Thats a new one for me !Quote:
Originally Posted by DKerns
I don't know anything about the vented lower, but I can vouch for the speed with the V8!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Foley
Yes, the lower unit has two cut out holes above the cavitation plate to vent the exhaust, thus reducing back pressure. Same idea as the older V8 offshore lower units.
http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...1&d=1221654002http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...1&d=1221654601
anymore pictures of this boat?Quote:
Originally Posted by vnemous
Kevlar or not.........great looking boat !
Thank YouQuote:
Originally Posted by Greg G
Like theseQuote:
Originally Posted by Chummy
http://i36.tinypic.com/27xh5k.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/2qlgvus.jpg