Old 1980s 2.4 V200 Mariner parts and general questions...

Seems odd that you pump the ball hard, then the fuel syphons back out of the carb bowls. Maybe put the fuel tank higher than the carbs on the top of the truck or something, but sounds like the pump ball is bad. Or like you want to do, get a red holley or some electric pump and a fuel regulator, 3.5-4 psi is good. Sometimes the red holley doesnt blow past the needle, sometimes it does as it will be 5 psi or more and needs a regulator. I would never ever use starting fluid, spray premix through the carb venturis when the plates are open to help prime the motor if needed. I suggest rebuilding the carbs quick, clean them good, make sure all the jets are clear. then try again.

After you clean them re-install in the proper locations. 31-1 is on top and 31-3 is on bottom. I would try to maintain the original fuel plump.

Rock

Should have mentioned this before but some primer bulbs have little flaps in them as opposed to the more common check valves. They all need the arrow pointed toward the motor but the flap style also needs to point upwards so the back flow of fuel will close it. Probably not your issue but something I have seen several times.

Rock

Try running on a good external tank and see if there is any diffidence. This is after you get you carb fixed up and will narrow down whether you even have an engine problem.

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Originally Posted by rjdubiel

Seems odd that you pump the ball hard, then the fuel syphons back out of the carb bowls. Maybe put the fuel tank higher than the carbs on the top of the truck or something, but sounds like the pump ball is bad. Or like you want to do, get a red holley or some electric pump and a fuel regulator, 3.5-4 psi is good. Sometimes the red holley doesnt blow past the needle, sometimes it does as it will be 5 psi or more and needs a regulator. I would never ever use starting fluid, spray premix through the carb venturis when the plates are open to help prime the motor if needed. I suggest rebuilding the carbs quick, clean them good, make sure all the jets are clear. then try again.

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Answering in the order you made your post: Yes it is indeed odd, I got no real answer as to why.

It (the ball) might be bad, but it has worked fine with 2 other engines I have used recently....

I have (a few days ago) bought a pump thats supposed to give 4.5 psi.. thats the lowest pressure one I could find for sale... No doubt the Holley plus regulator is a better solution, but is also a 400-500 buck one where I am at.. I would rather try this first if possible to see if it works reasonably well.

You are right, I shouldnt have used starting fluid, that was a mistake. Will anything really be hurt all that much on a less than 2 second runtime though?

I have had the carbs off and have cleaned and rebuilt them to the best of my ability beforehand (before trying to start the engine). Using ultrasonic cleaners and spraying brake clean in every orifice I could see. The carbs didnt look all that bad beforehand, I doubt something is stuck in them considering the 100cc 4 stroke scooter carbs (and 3hp lawnmover) I have rebuilt quite a few of should have much smaller jets and they cleaned up nicely and run great using the same method. But perhaps this is more finicky, for some reason? Anyway, yes they are cleaned to the best of my ability so far before starting. Cant see any blockage anywhere.

Cheers mate!

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Originally Posted by rock

After you clean them re-install in the proper locations. 31-1 is on top and 31-3 is on bottom. I would try to maintain the original fuel plump.

Rock

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Well, as far as I can tell, the carbs are clean. I did my best to clean them beforehand. Even before cleaning, there really wasnt any discernable dirt, grime, sludge etc in them, but I cleaned them as best I could anyway, just "to be sure".

Thats funny about the numbering. As the carbs were mounted on the engine when I got it, they were for sure in order I described, and the outlets of the carbs for the fuel hoses mean they dont fit any other way. I suppose they might have changed/switched the outlets over from the carbs sometime in the past, and then mounted them wrongly. But... The top carbs also have the "enrichment" circuit, and if I move that carb to the bottom, the hose wont reach it.

They would have to had switched the outlets, and then made new hose as well... very strange.... Do you have any Idea why they would have done this or is it possible there could be a difference between engines depeding on manufacturing date/origin etc so that the order with carb "3" on the top is factory stock after all?

Any reason you would try to stick with the factory pump? Just reliability in that "if the engine is running, the pump is, if it isnt, its not" Or are you considering other factors as well?

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Originally Posted by rock

Should have mentioned this before but some primer bulbs have little flaps in them as opposed to the more common check valves. They all need the arrow pointed toward the motor but the flap style also needs to point upwards so the back flow of fuel will close it. Probably not your issue but something I have seen several times.

Rock

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This could be a reason fuel drains backwards... hmm I will try to see if I can get the bulb more vertical. But I would rather forgo it completely as well, if possible.

Cheers mate!

Oh, and I have also sent you a PM with my adress a few days ago. Just so you know.

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Originally Posted by Glastron1987

Try running on a good external tank and see if there is any diffidence. This is after you get you carb fixed up and will narrow down whether you even have an engine problem.

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I did run it on an external tank, which has worked fine for my smaller engines I also got. Tried it just a few weeks ago. Still, there is an extra connection compared to before, which might introduce air I suppose... But this starting issue is the same I had when the engine didnt start last time, and back then I used the original tank and connection etc. But I guess its possible its the same fault of air being introduced into the hose, just by different things.

Yes, I am hoping i can get another jet and its holder thats missing soon enough. Its not many days until snow will start here, could be as soon as next week...

Anyway, just to be clear in case someone misunderstood it: At present the fuel will not enter the carb bowls. It never gets there.

Cheers!

This thread may have some jet info that may help.
Mercury Tech WH Carb ID (screamandfly.com)

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Originally Posted by Jaboxs

I did run it on an external tank, which has worked fine for my smaller engines I also got. Tried it just a few weeks ago. Still, there is an extra connection compared to before, which might introduce air I suppose... But this starting issue is the same I had when the engine didnt start last time, and back then I used the original tank and connection etc. But I guess its possible its the same fault of air being introduced into the hose, just by different things.

Yes, I am hoping i can get another jet and its holder thats missing soon enough. Its not many days until snow will start here, could be as soon as next week...

Anyway, just to be clear in case someone misunderstood it: At present the fuel will not enter the carb bowls. It never gets there.

Cheers!

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I think you can disconnect the fuel line coming out of the fuel pump going to the carbs and see if when you squeeze the ball it flows through. Then also I think you can turn it over and see it it pumps out of that line as well. If fuel come out in both of those cases, then the float needles in the carbs are probably bound up. You guys use ethanol in your fuel?

"Thats funny about the numbering. As the carbs were mounted on the engine when I got it, they were for sure in order I described, and the outlets of the carbs for the fuel hoses mean they dont fit any other way. I suppose they might have changed/switched the outlets over from the carbs sometime in the past, and then mounted them wrongly. But... The top carbs also have the "enrichment" circuit, and if I move that carb to the bottom, the hose wont reach it."

tha main feed hoses can be routed a coupla three different ways so there's that... tha enrichment circuit goes as follows.. if you got tha bowl of tha top switched then its messed up.. top carb has a fitting on tha bowl bottom that goes to tha top port of tha enrichner.. from tha bottom enrichner port a hose goes to a "t" fitting on top flange of middle carb.. from other side of that "t" it goes to a single bib on tha top flange of tha bottom carb.....

I did get your address and will be in town tomorrow to get it in the mail.

Rock

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Originally Posted by TLH101

This thread may have some jet info that may help.
Mercury Tech WH Carb ID (screamandfly.com)

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Thanks, I will check it out!

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Originally Posted by Glastron1987

I think you can disconnect the fuel line coming out of the fuel pump going to the carbs and see if when you squeeze the ball it flows through. Then also I think you can turn it over and see it it pumps out of that line as well. If fuel come out in both of those cases, then the float needles in the carbs are probably bound up. You guys use ethanol in your fuel?

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This is a good idea about disconnnecting the fuel line to see if and how the pump works, that I also thought about myself before I tried to start the engine... I then of course promptly forgot about it, once I had the engine on the hose... D'oh!.

Anyway, wHen I had the carbs apart for cleaning just a few days before start, the float needles seemed to move very smoothly and nice, in fact all of the moving parts that I could see did. I suppose they can bind up anyway, but I can shake the feeling the fuel just drains backwards just as fast as it pumps forwards/upwards... something makes the fuel hose lose pressure, at least thats how it seems to me.

Yes, we use 10% ethanol, its a law/mandate.

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Originally Posted by rock

I did get your address and will be in town tomorrow to get it in the mail.

Rock

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Thats good you got the PM and thats extremely generous of you to take the time and effort to do this (and of course all the good replys in the thread as well). "Top man", as the brits say!

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Originally Posted by tlwjkw

"Thats funny about the numbering. As the carbs were mounted on the engine when I got it, they were for sure in order I described, and the outlets of the carbs for the fuel hoses mean they dont fit any other way. I suppose they might have changed/switched the outlets over from the carbs sometime in the past, and then mounted them wrongly. But... The top carbs also have the "enrichment" circuit, and if I move that carb to the bottom, the hose wont reach it."

tha main feed hoses can be routed a coupla three different ways so there's that... tha enrichment circuit goes as follows.. if you got tha bowl of tha top switched then its messed up.. top carb has a fitting on tha bowl bottom that goes to tha top port of tha enrichner.. from tha bottom enrichner port a hose goes to a "t" fitting on top flange of middle carb.. from other side of that "t" it goes to a single bib on tha top flange of tha bottom carb.....

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I think I see what you are saying. I will try to take some photos thats as clear as I can, and get back to you ASAP, so you (and others, if they are interested) can see for yourself the current carb mounting and hose routing for the fuel and "enrichment" circuit (I take it thats what one might call it?).