Hot Singles ! - Pictures

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Originally Posted by Rotary John

Attachment 295046
Woods passing Seabolt Paris,'75 ....... who won Paris '75 when Scotti was killed?

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Scotti's accident happened in 74 :(

Seebold & Van der Velden won the race in 74 with the T3 (V6). I hope you guys can read the Mel Zikes article from Powerboat, December, 1974, he gives a little detail about the event. Note the displacement he calls out for the RT - 244". I recall 244" being the first number I heard the Merc engineers use in describing the size of the RT and they seemed pretty damned adamant about it!

In 1975, according to Zikes, "Mercury boycotted the Six Hours of Paris race this year. Citing safety as the reason, Mercury told the Frenchmen how to run their race. The Frenchmen didn't tell Mercury what to do with their boats, they didn't bother to answer Mercs letters. Evinrude V6 power took first and second place. ......"

So, based on the above information, I'd say you need to relabel your picture ..... it can not be "Woods passing Seabolt, Paris '75 .... it has to be "Seebold lapping Woods, Paris '74" :reddevil:

Attachment 295110 If you click on the article a couple of times it will become large enough for anyone under the age of 80 to read :D

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Originally Posted by willabee

Scotti's accident happened in 74 :(

Seebold & Van der Velden won the race in 74 with the T3 (V6). I hope you guys can read the Mel Zikes article from Powerboat, December, 1974, he gives a little detail about the event. Note the displacement he calls out for the RT - 244". I recall 244" being the first number I heard the Merc engineers use in describing the size of the RT and they seemed pretty damned adamant about it!

In 1975, according to Zikes, "Mercury boycotted the Six Hours of Paris race this year. Citing safety as the reason, Mercury told the Frenchmen how to run their race. The Frenchmen didn't tell Mercury what to do with their boats, they didn't bother to answer Mercs letters. Evinrude V6 power took first and second place. ......"

So, based on the above information, I'd say you need to relabel your picture ..... it can not be "Woods passing Seabolt, Paris '75 .... it has to be "Seebold lapping Woods, Paris '74" :reddevil:

Attachment 295110 If you click on the article a couple of times it will become large enough for anyone under the age of 80 to read :D

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I love the $7.60 lap record at Paris..... Must have been a bar tab.

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Originally Posted by willabee

Scotti's accident happened in 74 :(

Seebold & Van der Velden won the race in 74 with the T3 (V6). I hope you guys can read the Mel Zikes article from Powerboat, December, 1974, he gives a little detail about the event. Note the displacement he calls out for the RT - 244". I recall 244" being the first number I heard the Merc engineers use in describing the size of the RT and they seemed pretty damned adamant about it!

In 1975, according to Zikes, "Mercury boycotted the Six Hours of Paris race this year. Citing safety as the reason, Mercury told the Frenchmen how to run their race. The Frenchmen didn't tell Mercury what to do with their boats, they didn't bother to answer Mercs letters. Evinrude V6 power took first and second place. ......"

So, based on the above information, I'd say you need to relabel your picture ..... it can not be "Woods passing Seabolt, Paris '75 .... it has to be "Seebold lapping Woods, Paris '74" :reddevil:

Attachment 295110 If you click on the article a couple of times it will become large enough for anyone under the age of 80 to read :D

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Apparently you Merc engineers don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain. The rotary displacement was just over 2l. Go ask you Merc guy that was in change of your rotary program. Besides, they were running OZ, run what you brung. Mel Zikes would know what a rotary engine was in he got his dick stuck in the rotor, let alone what its displacement was. You are correct the picture was '74 not '75. Thanks for the correction. However, it is indeed Woods passing Seabolt. If you recall, Woods had a 3 lap lead when his motor gave up. That was after a 4 min delay at his start, changing the flywheel because it wouldn't start. Little did I realize it was the loose carbs causing the problem.

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Originally Posted by Rotary John

Apparently you Merc engineers don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain. The rotary displacement was just over 2l. Go ask you Merc guy that was in change of your rotary program. Besides, they were running OZ, run what you brung. Mel Zikes would know what a rotary engine was in he got his dick stuck in the rotor, let alone what its displacement was. You are correct the picture was '74 not '75. Thanks for the correction. However, it is indeed Woods passing Seabolt. If you recall, Woods had a 3 lap lead when his motor gave up. That was after a 4 min delay at his start, changing the flywheel because it wouldn't start. Little did I realize it was the loose carbs causing the problem.

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Hold on there Tiger, don't go calling me an engineer - I've got enough monikers to try to live down! :D

You're right about OZ - when they started racing in that class as opposed to "special events", it didn't make any difference, everything was legal.

I'd bet my last dollar that Zikes got that number from Garbrecht (they were pretty good buddies), but I thought I'd run it up the flagpole anyway just to see what happens. :D

One question ..... did you guys really refer to Seebold as Seabolt?

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Originally Posted by willabee

Hold on there Tiger, don't go calling me an engineer - I've got enough monikers to try to live down! :D

You're right about OZ - when they started racing in that class as opposed to "special events", it didn't make any difference, everything was legal.

I'd bet my last dollar that Zikes got that number from Garbrecht (they were pretty good buddies), but I thought I'd run it up the flagpole anyway just to see what happens. :D

One question ..... did you guys really refer to Seebold as Seabolt?

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Sorry for getting upset. I never could spell Billy's name correctly, but he was a fine person. Got invited over to his house after St. Louis. Always a gentleman and never meant any disrespect.

It was Paris 1974..not 1975.

Very happy with our Paris 6 Hour race 1974


"This was also the year when OMC was racing the Rotary outboards and they where flying around the race course..I never forget the sound from does machines..

I did see when Cesare Scotti crashed in to the bridge"..


http://svera.se/blogg/paris-6-hours/...our-race-1974/

Lassie, you must have one of the best collections of 70/s powerboat pictures in the world, you and Welch should get together along with Rich Luhrs and compile a complete history of what you know.
Kevin Desmond could do the compilation and between you we may get a result!!!

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Originally Posted by jackiewilson

Lassie, you must have one of the best collections of 70/s powerboat pictures in the world, you and Welch should get together along with Rich Luhrs and compile a complete history of what you know.
Kevin Desmond could do the compilation and between you we may get a result!!!

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Oh no .......Now you've done it.....

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Originally Posted by T2x

Oh no .......Now you've done it.....

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Stop being a wimp Rich, COllaberate !!!

[QUOTE=willabee;2616695]The rotary won, seems to be a subject that comes up frequently, so let's talk about the RT winning for a few minutes. I think it makes sense to begin with some dialogue about the agreement made between OMC & Merc in 1971. Allegedly, in an effort to reduce racing costs, the boys decided to compete with each other beginning the 1972 season using only single engine rigs and motors with a max. of 99.9 cu. in. That's how 1972 started out. Miami got blown out, so the first time they met with their new stuff was at Morgan City. The Merc Team had reliable C6 power on all their boats and after that event, OMC quit racing for a few months. Jack Leek was quoted in Powerboat saying they had nothing for the new Merc and have gone back to the drawing board. He was correct, they didn't have nearly enough. When they returned to competition, they had improved, but the only way they were going to win a race is if Merc screwed up. Havasu 72 is a good example of that. Merc boats were much faster, but the big guns (Seebold, Molinari, Hering, etc,) all managed to blow over or roll in the first couple of hours. The team was reduced to having Bert Serra, in a three year old Schultz, chase Johnny Sanders in a new Scotti for the win ..... no offense, but that's a very tall order. I say all of this because I believe that situation of OMC lacking competitive power contributed to what happened next.

Fast forward to February, 1973, OMC holds a press conference in Maimi to introduce their new RT - rotary combustion outboards! They announce that they are about 120 cu.in. Merc claims they are even larger than 120 (I think they were shocked) and immediately set out to ban the big motors from competition. I think Merc was right, this was a clear breech of the agreement and it sure didn't level the playing field. Some events decide to let the RT run as "special events", some say no. Merc says they will not run against it because of the displacement. I don't know how big they were, I just know everyone agrees they exceeded 100 inches.

As for the race results for the RT, I will offer the following. I don't pretend to claim it is 100% accurate. I'm sure I don't have the timing just right and may have some of the event details mixed. I didn't attend a lot of the events the RT ran at so I'm relying on memory and some stuff I found in Powerboat.

However, their first race was for sure at Parker in 1973. That was without a doubt the most impressive 1st lap performance ever witnessed at that race. The two RT's were so far ahead of the other 100 entries coming to the pit turn on lap one that I suggested that someone check to see if they had started at the other end of the course! :D Using 20/20 hindsight, that was probably a mistake on OMC's part. Now Merc saw how damn fast those things were and that just made them more determined to get them banned, claiming displacement advantage as the reason. However, we are talking about wins and they sure didn't get one at Parker. One machine only lasted one lap and the other retired after three.

Galveston was next. Merc had always supported that race, but decided not to go when they learned the RT's were allowed. I believe they took the first three places and would have been four for four if Rich McKinnley hadn't blown over. A win, they only ran against their four cylinder 99 " brothers, but they won .... 1 of 2

Pretty sure Provo was next. I guess we went because Garbrect thought he had Mary West convinced to disqualify the RT from entering. That didn't happen and they showed with four entries. Rotary John and I have batted this ball around so many times it's down to it's cords. I can't leave this paragraph without reminding you that the star of that show was the Mighty KT, but the simple fact is one of the RT's finished and it finished first .... 2 of 3 for the RT.

Carol Springs may have been next. It was called an exhibition by OMC, there was absolutely nobody there and a RT got the win - if that's really a win? .... 3 of 4 ?

Guessing Windermere was next. A real race this time, Merc was there with a V6 and the RT held on - definite win .... 4 of 5?

South Africa, another exhibition. The RT raced against two year old inlines and some four cylinder stuff..... a win? .... 5 of 6?

The next year there was something in Glendoe, Wyoming. I think it was supposed to be another of those exhibitions, but Merc found out about it and surprised the troops by sending a pair of Molinari's sporting the improved V6 - Merc finishes one & two - 5 of 7?

Then St.Louis, think it was the OZ World Championship. That race is a story within a story, probably the most exciting and frightening race I have ever witnessed! But, back to race results - Merc comes home first again .... 5 of 8?

Off to Paris where the Merc V6 beats the RT again - something to do with carb nuts, but Merc still wins .....5 of 9?

Then RJ mentioned they concluded their racing days at an event at Peewaukee Lake in Wisconsin. Hell, my brother lives on that lake and doesn't remember watching. Must have been another exhibition, no Merc's attended .....6 of 10?

I think those are the races and results. As I said, I'm open to correction, sure don't claim to be an expert on this (or anything else for that matter). If I have this right, a claim of 6 out of 10 can be made. However, the RT seems to have raced against the Merc V6 four times and it appears that it got beat in three of those events.

Want to repeat, I'm not trying to take anything away from those machines. They were really cool, innovative, very fast and scared the you know out of Merc for a short period of time. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE................ JUST CURIOUS TO ASK WILLA WHAT SPEEDS DID THE KT BOATS RUN AT IN TESTING AND DID HE EVER TEST DRIVE ONE.

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Originally Posted by steverino

[/quote................ Just curious to ask willa what speeds did the kt boats run at in testing and did he ever test drive one.

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Peacock saw 109 on the Keller of the Mighty KT testing in Oshkosh, full fuel load. He said he saw 112 during it's first race in Redwood City. The 22' Jones, 482" Bill Cooper drove at Elsinore in 68 ran in the 120's. If memory serves, Bob Nordskog set the KT kilo mark in another 22' Jones, 454" I think, at about 112.

Yes, I was fortunate enough to get an opportunity to drive the Elsinore Jones - will never forget it, it was quite a thrill!

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Originally Posted by willabee

Peacock saw 109 on the Keller of the Mighty KT testing in Oshkosh, full fuel load. He said he saw 112 during it's first race in Redwood City. The 22' Jones, 482" Bill Cooper drove at Elsinore in 68 ran in the 120's. If memory serves, Bob Nordskog set the KT kilo mark in another 22' Jones, 454" I think, at about 112.

Yes, I was fortunate enough to get an opportunity to drive the Elsinore Jones - will never forget it, it was quite a thrill!

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In Fl just before Parker we were testing in the low 120's, The general consensus was the Parker boats were in the 140 range. Can't prove that, but the 7 l hydro behind Jimbo and Posey had been clocked at 140 the week before and he sure was trying everything possible to catch the rotaries. Jimbo also said later he had to wait for Posey because of traffic.

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Originally Posted by willabee

In 1975, according to Zikes, "Mercury boycotted the Six Hours of Paris race this year. Citing safety as the reason, Mercury told the Frenchmen how to run their race. The Frenchmen didn't tell Mercury what to do with their boats, they didn't bother to answer Mercs letters. Evinrude V6 power took first and second place. ......"

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It is correct that Team Mercury polled out of the Paris Six Hours the day before the race. Blamed it on poor safety...
I was there racing 1975. Remember all the argument..

1979 Team Mercury raced many big T-4´s in the Paris Six Hour race..the safety around the race was no different than 1975..but suddenly the OZ class was a good class again for Team Mercury in Paris Six hours..!!!

Well..Politics in boat racing in the seventies and eighties was pretty funny to watch and be part of..:)

Paris Six Hours 1979… OMC overall win. Beats the Merc T-4 with a 3 liter V-6

Click below for full story-pictures.

http://svera.se/blogg/paris-6-hours/...a-3-liter-v-6/


PS..Yes I was there racing 1979.

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Originally Posted by Rotary John

In Fl just before Parker we were testing in the low 120's, The general consensus was the Parker boats were in the 140 range. Can't prove that, but the 7 l hydro behind Jimbo and Posey had been clocked at 140 the week before and he sure was trying everything possible to catch the rotaries. Jimbo also said later he had to wait for Posey because of traffic.

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That's a very ambitious number! This is 1973 we are talking about, that year Barry Woods traveled at 116 in a full nose Scotti, Hering went 118 in a pickle fork Molinari and Merten went 136 in a three point hydro ..... and that was all any of them could get out of what they had to drive. You're talking about going 140 in a full nose Scotti. I'm not saying the RT didn't have the juice to push a boat that fast, I just don't think those boats could have stayed on the water at that speed. I think it was 1975 when Hering & Molinari used a T3 on Renato's latest design to average 100 for the seven hours. If memory serves, Lee Sutter said they were running in the 130's then.

The 120 testing sounds believable, but what would have been responsible for picking up 20 mph in the two or three weeks between the press conference in Miami and the race in Parker? In addition, just my opinion, but I don't believe that particular 7 liter at Parker ever saw the sunny side of 120. I've seen it run, there is no way it had 30/40 mph on the good outboards, not even close! For a boat apparently claiming to run 140, it sure had a bunch of 100/110 outboards glued to it.