Hot Singles ! - Pictures

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Originally Posted by baldad45

......In Willabee's post one engine has 2 pipes and the other only 1 . Was the 2 pipe motor the one used for the record?

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Sorry, I got lazy and didn't take the time to enlarge the photo ..... let's see if this is any better.

http://i41.tinypic.com/9rk114.jpg

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Originally Posted by willabee

I don't see how that could be the record powerhead. The one we built at Racing was never put on a dyno, just built and put on the boat. It had an aluminum flywheel and a twin pipe exhaust system when it left the plant. The one that Lanpheer's group built at Plt #6 (the one he says was used for the record) had Tillotson carbs and he said the single pipe exhaust would not work on it. The picture has Morgan carbs and a single pipe system.

I see some blueing on the exhaust manifold in your picture, makes me think it is just a shot of a very early C6.

Shunk was not involved in this attempt, he had just come to Hi Perf and was working on the rotary whipper, The Mighty KT! Hetzel did all of his work underwater, he wouldn't know if the boat even had a powerhead! :D

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Funny how your rotary wiper never whipped a rotary.

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Originally Posted by Rotary John

Funny how your rotary wiper never whipped a rotary.

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Never given another chance ..... after the boys saw how The Mighty KT just roared past all four of the rotaries at Provo, they never put them in water that The Mighty KT was about to churn up! The next event that would have allowed the rotary to run was the Elsinore 250. Jack Leek must have seen that The Mighty KT had entered and decided "no mas" , didn't want to face that machine again. Parker was next, but again no rotaries. We were waiting for them, they just never showed. :D

BTW, are you ever going to post that list of the eight races they entered and the six they won?

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Originally Posted by 2us70

Are any of the any of the crew who did the record runs with that boat around to ask about the particulars? There seems to be some confusion about the exact engine configuration used. This may be because of the advertising photo differs from the news photos. I wonder how they decided on the final package?

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A few of the people involved in that effort are still breathing, but that doesn't mean they remember being there! :D

I agree that the PR photo announcing the record and showing the single pipe tends to make most people think that was what was used for the run. I don't know why they didn't take any good pictures of the final setup. Time, or the lack of, may have been the reason.

I just sent a bunch of pictures to Dick Lanpheer, the engineer in charge of the racing development at Plt.#6 in Oshkosh, and his comment was that all the pics were of the C6 that was not used for the record. He didn't know that the NED C6 they were using was built by us at Racing, he thought it had come from Dr. Morgan's engineering group in Fond du Lac. The way he recalls it is that speeds using the C6 were falling just short of what they needed and he was told to put in an "all out" effort to build something to get the job done. He said they quickly put together two powerheads that had some very radical porting, Tillotson carbs, different pistons using two thin rings and some other "trick" stuff...... things they had been "playing" with , but never had combined all of them into one unit. He said they sent them to Kaukauna and that the record was set on the first runs using this powerhead. He doesn't remember what exhaust system was used for sure, but added that the single pipe would not work with the firing order of the powerheads he built.

Like me, he wasn't invited to attend the event! :mad:

Willabee can you tell us where the 10-20 horsepower gain over the T-ll in the T-llX comes from ?

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Originally Posted by baldad45

Willabee can you tell us where the 10-20 horsepower gain over the T-ll in the T-llX comes from ?

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I have been talking (mostly via email) with Dick Lanpheer about some of the things that happened back in the era we are referring to, including the horsepower that the various inlines produced. By way of background, Plant #6 in Oshkosh was the home of two cycle development for Merc. Bob Johnson was in charge of that group, he reported directly to Charles Alexander, Vice President of Engineering in Fond du Lac. Dick was in charge of the engineers working on the racing efforts taking place at Plant #6 and reported to Johnson. As I understand it, Jerry Hale (rckid74), the gentleman telling the story about the development of the V6, was one of the engineers that reported to Dick. Dick had "hands on" experience with almost all of the motors we are talking about, but like the rest of us, has to rely on his memory banks to come up with exact answers.

He confirmed that the TII-X had a slight gain in HP over the TII, primarily due to a third transfer port. He couldn't remember whether or not the TII used the 1400 block and the TII-X used the 1500. I remember a few years ago on S & F, I made a statement that they did and all kinds of arguments broke out ..... I don't want to go there and have Raceman all over my a$$ again :nonod:, so I won't make a firm statement about that. Maybe they both used the 1400 block and a power port was added for the X?

Anyway, Dick made a number of interesting statements about horsepower that I will try to scan and print here so that you all know it came from an engineer in charge of testing these things on a dyno, not from a dude like me who only repeated the numbers that he was told or thinks he was told while working with these guys.

I'll give you a little teaser - I've always said that the C6 pulled 190/200 HP, Dick said "pure myth"! :confused:

Thanks for the reply , I'm thinking the extra ports may have been finger ports. All the pics I've seen of the first Twisters to the T-llX had the three port transfer ports.

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Originally Posted by willabee

I'll give you a little teaser - I've always said that the C6 pulled 190/200 HP, Dick said "pure myth"! :confused:

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Been sayin' that here since 'bout 2001; glad to hear it will be backed up by some authority



Dicks' son Herb is a fellow kneel down racer who hooked me up with his dad to straighten me out on some details years ago.

Geez, next there won't be a Santa Claus.

Just noticed this motor doesn't have the fuel enrichment lines hooked up.

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0b2165af.jpg

T1's had three transfer ports or am I missing something ?? Casting number is for a 1350 in this picture. One obvious difference between the T2 and T2X is the tuners in the mid sections.

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/...ps84ce860c.jpg

[QUOTE=Old fiberglass;2571139]Geez, next there won't be a Santa Claus]

I sure hate to be the one to finally break this to you, but ...... :nonod:

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Originally Posted by Old fiberglass

T1's had three transfer ports or am I missing something ?? Casting number is for a 1350 in this picture. One obvious difference between the T2 and T2X is the tuners in the mid sections.

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That's true, but the replacement powerheads carried different part numbers with significantly different list price.

[QUOTE=Old fiberglass;2571141]T1's had three transfer ports or am I missing something ?? ]

You're not missing anything, that's why a cylinder block was included in the update kit Merc sold for the Twister .....the Twister didn't have the third port or the scalloped reed blocks.

FYI folks - I am having some trouble getting the emails from Dick ready to post, I'll get them up as soon as I can.

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Originally Posted by Mark75H

That's true, but the replacement powerheads carried different part numbers with significantly different list price.

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I am not clear what you are saying is a replacement with different P/N's ??

[QUOTE=willabee;2571155]

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Originally Posted by Old fiberglass

Geez, next there won't be a Santa Claus]

I sure hate to be the one to finally break this to you, but ...... :nonod:

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Sniff, sniff no Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy either ??