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Originally Posted by willabee

If we're trying to be accurate ..... it was 1978, it was a Cosworth/Molinari and I wasn't there. :p

But, apparently you were! I wanted to be sure of the date, so I looked it up in Powerboat and found the article in the August, 1978 edition. John Crouse covered the June event which also included a big GN race, the Ancient Age Aqua Speed Classic!

Keith Duckworth was there to watch over his 183 in./450 HP (WOW) Cosworth/Ford making it's US debut. Crouse added that "countryman Jackie Wilson had been driving a similar rig in Europe classified as an outboard. According to Wilson who says the relative lightness of the engine and MerCruiser outdrive allows it to be lifted out as one unit, it's a legal outboard engine in Europe according to UIM rules".

If that's an outboard, ........ :nonod:

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OK. OK. for crying out loud----so I was a year out of

sync after thirty five--NO BIG DEAL-----and it was a Molinari-----SO WHAT ????????

YOU AND G.G SCREWED THE KT CLASS INTO OBLIVION WITH THAT RIG---------OR DID I GET THAT WRONG TOO.

Still think the boat looks more like a Seebold than a Molli.

Mercury's monster top of the line 300 "OUTBOARD" of today probably weighs more than my Cosworth outboard.

How does the APBA designate "AN OUTBOARD"???????
and should i care or not ?????

TITTER YE NOT OF THE LOWLY 450 HP------------THE VERY SAME LUMP IN F1 TRIM WAS PULLING OVER 700 HP IN 1979 AND OVER 1,000 HP.TODAY.

Just one last aside-------Even Crouse made things up, and 'winged' it a little, the bit about lifting the whole shebang out as a unit was as close as his statement got, [but then you knew that didn't you William].

You were always "THERE" so what happened that day-----i know you worked on most of the cosworth experimental stuff----i took you and GG to the factory in Northampton myself----------{didn't I] ????

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Originally Posted by jackie wilson

----so I was a year out of sync after thirty five--NO BIG DEAL-----
YOU AND G.G SCREWED THE KT CLASS INTO OBLIVION WITH THAT RIG---------OR DID I GET THAT WRONG TOO.

How does the APBA designate "AN OUTBOARD"???????
and should i care or not ?????

You were always "THERE" so what happened that day-----i know you worked on most of the cosworth experimental stuff----i took you and GG to the factory in Northampton myself----------{didn't I] ????

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I didn't have anything to do with that rig, I was gone long before that happened. I have stated many times that I thought entering that rig at the ET championships was a lousy thing to do to the guys in that class. It didn't make any US marketing sense, it didn't even use the engine they had developed and were trying to sell. First they get them to spend their money on the Mercury package (I was part of that) or at least the drive portion of it. Then you throw in a boat with some exotic engine that very few could afford and take their big race of the year away ..... that sucks big time!

Yes, I did go to Cosworth with Gary. We made a whrilwind trip one weekend, took off Friday night for Italy. Went to Molinari's in the morning, flew to England and went to Cosworth in the afternoon. I really don't remember how we got from the airport to the shop. We made one more stop and were home in time to watch the evening news on Sunday. That kind of stuff was part of the excitement and fun I experienced working for Merc.

Lastly, no ..... you didn't have to care about how an outboard was designated in the APBA or UIM rule books. I bet you already knew what one really was before you opened up that rule book! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by willabee

I didn't have anything to do with that rig, I was gone long before that happened. I have stated many times that I thought entering that rig at the ET championships was a lousy thing to do to the guys in that class. It didn't make any US marketing sense, it didn't even use the engine they had developed and were trying to sell. First they get them to spend their money on the Mercury package (I was part of that) or at least the drive portion of it. Then you throw in a boat with some exotic engine that very few could afford and take their big race of the year away ..... that sucks big time!

Yes, I did go to Cosworth with Gary. We made a whrilwind trip one weekend, took off Friday night for Italy. Went to Molinari's in the morning, flew to England and went to Cosworth in the afternoon. I really don't remember how we got from the airport to the shop. We made one more stop and were home in time to watch the evening news on Sunday. That kind of stuff was part of the excitement and fun I experienced working for Merc.

Lastly, no ..... you didn't have to care about how an outboard was designated in the APBA or UIM rule books. I bet you already knew what one really was before you opened up that rule book! :thumbsup:

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Funnily enough William, I did not write the rule book, nor was I the first to run a car lump in a boat.the guy who told me how the rule could be interpreted was a UIM COMMISIONER and an RYA scrutineer. He had ramroded the winning boat in the " LONDON TO MONTE CARLO RACE" and said the following -------------Quote--- An outboard!!!!!!!!---- IT SHALL BE REMOVABLE FROM THE BOAT. COMPLETE WITH IT' S DRIVE. his name is MIKE BELLAMY.

I JUST STUCK TO THE RULES, stitched it all together,what do you know,we had an outboard.
First race was Bristol---nobody took much notice ,thought it a nice rig,until it ran the first and only practice lap. Then Jack Leek led the parade to Charlie Sheppard to get the rig thrown out, but as he pointed out, It' s legal and it' OZ, and he was also a UIM commisioner.

To this day I believe I was right.
What was wrong is the fact that there is a totally idiotic class out there which is uncontrolable, and does not run to any formula and can be exploited to the detriment of power boat racing.

it lasted just a few short months in 1978 and thanks to Keith Duckworth and his wonderful sense of humour I was honoured to take part.

as I said before Willabee my old friend, the best rules are the one's you can bend, just a little.

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Originally Posted by jackie wilson

If your right with Cooper running 120 plus in 1969' I have to tell you, the KT's in Parker nine years later were way off the mark.
doubt much if they were running into three figures.
then again, there were only six of them running.

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I think the one that started it all, the 265" Molinari Cooper ran in 68 was about a 90 mph machine. The display he put on testing told the previously dominant inboard boys that their days on the throne just might be numbered. The 482" Jones he drove at Elsinore in 69 ran into the 120's. At the halfway mark of the 500, he was five laps or 25 miles in front of the second place boat! As I recall, that was about all the boat builders of the time needed to see. The guys that built the GN's and SKI's were successful in rewriting the rules in a manner that made the I/O tunnel illegal.

The I/O tunnel wasn't really revived until 1973. The few good ones were about 100/110 mph rigs on the course, Nordskog set a kilo mark in his 22' Jones at about 113 and bumped it to 125 the next year. More builders got involved and they just got better. As a matter of fact, in 1977, Lou Burnette's ET would have won Parker except for a battery failure in the last fifteen minutes which allowed the Hering/Molinari Evinrude to get past! The fastest lap speed also belonged to an ET and this was during outboard V6 time. Lastly, we all remember that the OMC rotarys were the fastest thing on the water until they ran up against (behind) the mighty KT! :D

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Originally Posted by willabee

I think the one that started it all, the 265" Molinari Cooper ran in 68 was about a 90 mph machine. The display he put on testing told the previously dominant inboard boys that their days on the throne just might be numbered. The 482" Jones he drove at Elsinore in 69 ran into the 120's. At the halfway mark of the 500, he was five laps or 25 miles in front of the second place boat! As I recall, that was about all the boat builders of the time needed to see. The guys that built the GN's and SKI's were successful in rewriting the rules in a manner that made the I/O tunnel illegal.

The I/O tunnel wasn't really revived until 1973. The few good ones were about 100/110 mph rigs on the course, Nordskog set a kilo mark in his 22' Jones at about 113 and bumped it to 125 the next year. More builders got involved and they just got better. As a matter of fact, in 1977, Lou Burnette's ET would have won Parker except for a battery failure in the last fifteen minutes which allowed the Hering/Molinari Evinrude to get past! The fastest lap speed also belonged to an ET and this was during outboard V6 time. Lastly, we all remember that the OMC rotarys were the fastest thing on the water until they ran up against (behind) the mighty KT! :D

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NOW YOU'VE GONE AND DONE IT WILLIAM--------------Rotor-oh-no-Johno is really gonna be pissed at you for disturbing his selective memory system on the KT/WANKEL duels-----------stand back------the excreta is about to hit the whirlygig-[as my sainted granny used to say].

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Originally Posted by jackie wilson

NOW YOU'VE GONE AND DONE IT WILLIAM--------------Rotor-oh-no-Johno is really gonna be pissed at you for disturbing his selective memory system on the KT/WANKEL duels-----------stand back------the excreta is about to hit the whirlygig-[as my sainted granny used to say].

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Really quite simple. The one and only time rotaries ran against KT were Provo which Posey in a rotary won. Enough said.

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Originally Posted by jackie wilson

NOW YOU'VE GONE AND DONE IT WILLIAM--------------Rotor-oh-no-Johno is really gonna be pissed at you for disturbing his selective memory system on the KT/WANKEL duels-----------stand back------the excreta is about to hit the whirlygig-[as my sainted granny used to say].

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I was just checkin' to see if Ol' Rotary was payin' attention ..... he was! :D

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Originally Posted by Rotary John

Really quite simple. The one and only time rotaries ran against KT were Provo which Posey in a rotary won. Enough said.

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Was that one of the six ???????? Just asking. !!!!!!

Were not three of the six won in Provo. ????

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Originally Posted by jackie wilson

Was that one of the six ???????? Just asking. !!!!!!

Were not three of the six won in Provo. ????

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Actually there was 4. Barry Woods lead the race for about 2 hrs and broke. Johhny Sanders broke he's crank, my mistake, Jimbo ran the goat boat and wasn't competitive and Posey won the race.

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Originally Posted by willabee

The OMC rotarys got their first win at this event, but the only factory stuff they beat were the OMC piston powered rigs. Merc did not have this race on their schedule and weren't about to add it with those rotarys running down there. There were two races, I think the one-hour marathon was a "run what ya brung" format, so the rotarys could run in it and there was a 100 miler for the "S" and "U" class boats.

Even though the win wasn't against Team Mercury, it still was a monumental step in the development of that engine. After all, it was only a month earlier that they couldn't run hard for 20 miles (the Parker Nine-Hour) and here they are running strong for an hour. In fact, they entered four and finished 1-2-3 and would have had 4th if Rich McKinley hadn't rolled his in a turn. The first Merc to finish was Hiram Muecke in a TII/Molinari, taking 5th place.

This win got some serious "jaw-jacking" going at Merc.....we were confident that our TII could beat their piston powered stuff but we were in deep do-do at events that would let that engine run.....the common thought was like that of Sheriff Brody in Jaws after he first saw the size of that shark....."we need a bigger boat" :eek: (in our case we needed a bigger engine).

Here are Tom Posey, Jimbo McConnell and Bob Witt ....1-2-3 :cool: all in Scotticraft's.

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I think Jackie is referring to your statement that they won 6 of the 8 they entered.

I wrote a little about the rotarys on page 12 of this thread. Think I even posted a picture of a younger you. The stuff above is about the Galveston Speed Classic, the rotarys first win.

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Originally Posted by willabee

I think Jackie is referring to your statement that they won 6 of the 8 they entered.

I wrote a little about the rotarys on page 12 of this thread. Think I even posted a picture of a younger you. The stuff above is about the Galveston Speed Classic, the rotarys first win.

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Now I may be getting things out of context here, but if four wankels were entered in each of the eight races, that's thirty two starts, with just six wins.
Don,t seem that clever to me and is no where near as impressive as my totally reliable"ABOMINATION" that finished EVERY race it ever entered, and won over sixty percent of them.
I used to look where the factory boats were running and raced all over the world, against them,never did go to obscure places just to claim a win to improve the percentages,left that dubious method to others.

[QUOTE=jackie wilson;2447002]Now I may be getting things out of context here, but if four wankels were entered in each of the eight races, that's thirty two starts, with just six wins.
Jackie my friend, I do belive your age is catching up with you. Last time I went to a boat race only 1 person could win regardless of how many were entered.

Thats a new Tee shirt Jackie

The older I get
The more of us won the same race

[QUOTE=Rotary John;2447013]

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Originally Posted by jackie wilson

Now I may be getting things out of context here, but if four wankels were entered in each of the eight races, that's thirty two starts, with just six wins.
Jackie my friend, I do belive your age is catching up with you. Last time I went to a boat race only 1 person could win regardless of how many were entered.

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Johno my dear chap, even i, in my dotage realize there can only be one winner, but we were were talking numbers and percentages and you made it so simple with six wins in eight races, err!!!!! forgive me for asking, did you have four boats running in each race ??????
I mean as opposed to just one of little old me, ,
Funny Johno, but whichever way i look at it-----you still had 32 cracks at winning in the eight races you entered as opposed to my eight starts------ or has my age overcome my common savvy????
You sure it's ME that's running on empty.

Which reminds me if you won a race and then crossed the international date line and did it again, you could actually score a second race win after the first on the day before.

Now if a father and son married a daughter and mother, you could be your mother's father.