Tuff Boat on Long Island

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Originally Posted by RotorHead

Hello Joe,

I have not been on here for quite some time, so I hope you don't mind me responding to your private message in open forum.

My boat is #2 and is the heaviest of all Tuffs. When Mark and I laid it up in 2003, I insisted on an extra layer of structural cloth on either side of the core.


Here are the set up specifics, as it ran 102 MPH:
Boat weight – 2280 lbs with fuel, oil and life jackets etc.
Engine – Stock 300 X
Gearcase – sporty 1.75
Setback – my solid-cast swim step 12" plus the Detwiler jack plate 6" - total 18"
Prop – 32" pitch Bravo
Steering – Seastar (Standard factory ratio)
Motor height – bottom of pad even with bottom of gear case


Subjectively; the boat made 4 passes in both directions and yielded roughly the same number each time. Handling characteristics were not ideal. The large diameter blade wanted to walk the boat to the right on acceleration and wanted to pass you on the left on deceleration. In my humble opinion, the authority of the skeg is too small for a large diameter prop to be surfacing.


The boat needs to be aired out and The "wetted" surface reduced to a minimum. Flight attitude as close as possible to 3° nose up with minimal trim utilized that's the balance that is critical and hence the 18" of setback. Clearly this set up is not conducive for big wave jumping. On occasion when I've had the opportunity to play in some moderate swells, The transom falls out of the sky midflight. That is the reason Mark offers the ballast tank as an option.


On a personal note, Mark is my friend and a pillar of morality! I don't know of a finer human being. If there was some misunderstanding during your business dealings, it would be due to lack of research. Mark is incapable of deception and it is with his consent that I write this.

Finally, as a fun fact my boat has turned into a family hauler, I have replaced the X with an XS, the sporty has 1.62 gears in it and my every day prop is a 26" Trophy. With my entire family and all the neighbors kids it runs 90.


Here's a picture of my 13-year-old Tuff 21, this year, with the new motor.


Good luck!

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let start by saying thank you for that info, it apears that the testing Ive done so far confirms my findings

the larger diameter props have there own inherent proplems with high engine heights and small skegs, resulting in the handeling issues you mentioned epecially the fact that the M2 skeg is smaller than a sport master, most of the 21's with x's run 26 and 28 trophes, resulting in tammer running boat, as a note I started relleizing this as I started going up with pitch, but no one ever pointed the finger at the prop sizes, and the relationship of the handling problems, it just goes to show all the genius's really dont know what they think they know

my first couple of outings with the Tuff were with the exact setup in which Mcnight got the boat, I changed nothing, it took one pass to releized that the Tuff was a totally different boat than any other 21 Ive owned, the boat showed me why there so expensive, no vibrations, no clattering, I never felt a more solid boat, which amazed me with the lack of bulk heads, which is a testiment to the construction qualitys of the Tuff,
so after testing with about 130lbs in the nose I was able to tame the tuff down, in most water conditions I have been in, hence Marks option of a water ballist tank, I dont jump waves, but our conditions are totally different than the lake boating, saying this I have to change the setup to accomadate our boating, Im not a fan of adding weight to a 21 so the next step is going to be less set back, and test,
On a personal note, I respect your freindship with Mark, and Im sure he is all of that, but when he says I lacked research, after some 35 emails, 10 telephone conversations, a trip to Cananda, I think I did my homework, but yes in all those conversations I failed to ask one question, How old is this DEMO your selling? the first time I found out the year of the DEMO was when Mark emailed a bill of sale and a copy of the MSO, only after I insisted those documents before I wired a $10000.00 deposit, never never never didhe mention the year of the DEMO, I would have never invested all the time and money on the 9 year old number 1 28 Tuff, the fact that the boat was 9 years old and the first one out of the mold, would be something I would have told a potential buyer upfront, it was omission in a strategic atttemt to unload a 9 year old boat thats been siiting under a tent in his back yard for god knows how many years.... the add was deceptive and the why he handled me was deceptive......he may be a Pillar of motallity in life, but in business hes not and Ive been told that by people that have done business with him and some that know im personally, like I said he wanted to unload a 9 year old boat and maybe just said he never asked me how old the boat is so thats his problem.......

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Originally Posted by whipper

Glad the file could be useful. :cheers:

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james it was great its really usefull info to some buying a Allison, or anyone for that matter

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Originally Posted by hoser

Pitt you have to slow down your to old to carry on like this

funny thing Joey didn't rig my boat it was jay that put it together in 86
then it Eric from kids marine when it had the v-8
then it was willy who but on the x
yes it was Joey that worked on the motor after I stuck a piston
and had to repair it a few times after because of reasons that you don't need to know

One other thing
my boat did run 97 mph
it was Joey driving it on a winter day after he repaired the motor for the 3rd time
I have a picture of the gps at work
prof of the speed was your boy Joey, your boy jerry and myself
sorry you weren't there you must of been busy on the screamandfly that day

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just for the record, so the offical numbers that are being posted can be corrected, still fast in the hands of a guy that squeezes every last mph, just not the same, when someone else does it,

This has been a great thread, except for the crap, which I can ignore. Please keep it going, I for one am a big Tuff fan and BRP supporter. And it's good to see Rotorhead is still around. Haven't seen him at the lake for a few years.

[QUOTE=David;2800365]This has been a great thread, except for the crap, which I can ignore. Please keep it going, I for one am a big Tuff fan and BRP supporter. And it's good to see Rotorhead is still around. Haven't seen him at the lake for a few years.[/QUOTE


im trying,
yes I pmed him and it was nice of him to respond those guys have a ton of experience with the tuff which is nothing like any of the varients we have here

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Originally Posted by hoser

That's rite Mario's hands weren't my boat also

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Just remember who sold you your first performance boat their skippy! and this is as the prop turns.

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Originally Posted by RADER

Just remember who sold you your first performance boat their skippy! and this is as the prop turns.

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yes Rader they all have short memories when its conveinent for them, I spoke with someone today that was never at OBI, talk about the day, what some of the pontives dont realieze what we forget they still have to experience, one thing I learned in life and I wish I would have realized it at an earlier age is age brings wisdom, but I would be embarrassed If isaid someone else ran my boat and I ran around telling everyone my boat ran that number, to me its like it never happened, here on Long island how many of these posters were really ever in real races with real race boats, you and I both know who the real guys are,

That a 32 Superboat?

Dirk....see you on the CT River Sunday (tomorrow) Morning ! I will be in my Challenger.....

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Originally Posted by dnelson964

Dirk....see you on the CT River Sunday (tomorrow) Morning ! I will be in my Challenger.....

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now for real im not going:eek: I will check the weather around 5 and make a decision

Karma!!!!! LOL and 2 posts how long will this stay up?

Tuff looked real good running out on the bay today,was running high on the pad,big rooster tail.

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Originally Posted by goneby

Tuff looked real good running out on the bay today,was running high on the pad,big rooster tail.

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I saw you out there running...I was on the peer at tanner watching Dirk and i took a quick cell phone video of you....boat sounded awesome and looked straight as an arrow....


http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...018_115146.jpg

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Originally Posted by ghost28

I saw you out there running...I was on the peer at tanner watching Dirk and i took a quick cell phone video of you....boat sounded awesome and looked straight as an arrow....


http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...018_115146.jpg

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I didnt know that was him,all i kept thinking was "i wonder if that guy thinks were racing?
boat was moving pretty good

Just taking some runs in the cool weather,not a bad video for cell phone thanks for posting,not racing just wanted to get a closer look saw it come across the bay looked good