Click on Link Below for short Video of the Rotary Public Launch from 1973
Attachment 490290 Attachment 490291
Attachment 490303
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/V...uery/speedboat
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Click on Link Below for short Video of the Rotary Public Launch from 1973
Attachment 490290 Attachment 490291
Attachment 490303
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/V...uery/speedboat
Now we know the sound
Sound? I've listened to every rotary clip posted on this site and they all sound like dubbed in stock outboards. Whoever made this clip should have turned down Bill Muncie's voice so we could listen to the thing run! Only person who can authenticate the rotary's sound on this website is RJ! Real rotary sound? Doubt it. All the comments about the rotary's sound have had one thing in common..........it sounded like no other outboard power made. One way to settle the argument is to get one of these stingy collectors who still has one to have RJ look at it and dry fire it............ even for just a moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark75H
I was puzzled by the sound in that clip also. Many years ago there was a racing airplane built with 2 Mazda rotaries in it. I heard it run several times and it didn't sound like that. The airport got noise complaints every time they flew that thing. We would then go out to the runway and watch it land because the rear engine would overheat. The overheating was not the motors fault but a design problem with the aircraft.
It sounds more like the V-6 than the rotary; but not sure. Notice when Munice is talking there in no engine sound, which leads me to thing the sound is dubbed in.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterZebra
Bob Zips in Conn. has 2 (of 4) of the latest rotaries. I have talked and e-mailed him about letting one run for history sake, but never heard back from him. BRP has the other 2 and when I asked for 1 when they stopped producing outboards, I was told the were going to their museum in Canada. The one Seaway has is an older unit and I don't know if it is run-able or not. Hey guys, I'm 76 and if something like that is going to happen, it better be soon. As long as I'm able I will do it in a heart beat.
@Rotary John
Same here..I am not 100% sure that the outboard sound in the video is from the Rotary racing engine.
Paris 6 hours 1974 is a long time ago when I raced with the two Rotary powered boats. (in my own OE class boat)..
This one is for Mouse's daughter if she doesn't already have it. I think is see a very young Johnny Sanders on the left also. S, Africa 1973Attachment 490487
This is the engine Seaway has. it looks from the picture to be complete. I don't know about the carbs as we never painted the carbs black; but they appear to have both the fuel and primer rails. It has the 15/17 gearcase, but again I don't know if anything is inside. All the internal parts were V-4 except the input shaft. I would be happy to try to get it to run if somebody covers my expenses.Attachment 490488
2+2+1 = 5 The rotary was one of the greatest R&D programs OMC ever had. Production program? No! OMC's V6 and V8 projects were legit product development production programs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
You forgot that OMC produce over 15,000 rotary snowmobiles in 1972 & 73; many of which are still running today.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterZebra
The sound as Jimbo goes by sounds like WOT at full speed, but you will notice the boat is Porpoiseing meaning he is running part throttle at reduced speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
In some ways I would agree with you. While the rotary program was indeed a very active production development program with 6, 50 & 100HP units designed and running, the 4 rotor program was Charlie Strang's way of kicking Charlie Alexander's ass. You noticed as soon as he had a V-6 to race the 4 rotor race engine stopped even though the rotary had more HP. The rotary out preformed the V-6 Windemere. Paris and St. LouisQuote:
Originally Posted by WaterZebra
It is my opinion the rotary program was stopped because it had 10x less hydrocarbon emissions than the equivalent 2-stroke.. OMC at the time was selling all the 2-strokes they could produce and with out a complete rotary line up couldn't risk EPA banning 2-stroke outboard like Calf. did in 1974 to motorcycles.
We are talking marine outboard power, not snowmobiles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
When was the first OMC 2l cross V-6 raced and when was it's first production?Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterZebra
Some of these may be on Boat Racing Facts
Copied from (https://www.carthrottle.com/post/wbyo24x/)
Attachment 490526 Attachment 490527
Images below off YouTube stills
Attachment 490528 Attachment 490529 Attachment 490530 Attachment 490531 Attachment 490532
As a point of interest; all these pictures came from my originals. I sent them to Ken along with the "***the real facts" original script. They have been floating around the internet for years. I still have the originals.
I don't believe Pathe would overdub the sound as it was predominately a news channel. However the timing might not quite be correct so Johns comments may be the answer, right sound wrong place.
Mike Gwaltney: Who is the fellow opposite Ted Wright in the first picture. I don't remember. Tom Corton?
Hi John, thanks for you reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
I hadn't posted for some time and posted on recently.again.
Apologies if I repost your work/pics :D . You know nobody counterfeits a $40 bill, only the real stuff :thumbsup:
I'll message you a link related to these pics below you can share if you want.
Attachment 490536 Attachment 490537 Attachment 490538
John, I’m sure this information is in the last 28 pages but how many rotary race engines were built? And what was the dressed weight?
Great thread,
Thx-
Your right, it's been posted many times. The engines were rebuilt after every outing. It was Charlie Strang's motto; race it, break it, rebuild it, race it again. In addition, we were making changes, upgrade, additional HP continually. There were only 6 black exhaust manifold ever made, so the most at any one time would have been 6. Most of the time we had 4 ready to race with 1 spare powerhead. My memory is shot, but I recall a running powerhead weighed 197 # and a complete assembly was 250/275 #.
Those pics are from the mechanics illustrated story on the rotary.
I still have that magazine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzman
Posting for a friend :p
Attachment 490564
Let me know Rotary John/Ken/Lars etc if you don't have it. Happy to share the whole article if nobody has it :thumbsup:
You got any of these?
Attachment 490565 Attachment 490566
Got these too these if anyone hasn't got them :D
I have a feeling the remaining rotaries will never run again (test tank or boat). They will take their place beside the P-38 Lightning. Too valuable to run or fly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
Unfortunately I think you are correct. The 2 Bob Zips has he guards with his life as if the came from King Tuts tomb. He has told me he was going to give them to some museum when he passes. Besides, only 1 has a gear case. The 2 or 3 BRP has, they have no interest in running and have supposedly sent them to their museum in Quebec to sit next to their locomotive. I don't know if Seaway's machine is complete or runnable. I remember someone saying way back that this was the unit on display downstairs of Waukegan Engineering and it was locked up. Without looking at the motor, I can only speculate what might be wrong and what it would take to fix it.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterZebra
Knowing Greg he will try to get the parts and run it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
I know where to get the parts. It's knowing what parts are needed and how to put it back together once you have taken it apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
I dunno..........he has the OMC V8 speed record motor and hydro and a vintage V8 Molinari and I have never heard any news about those running?Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
pretty sure he doesnt have the engine from that record setting hydro or any other for it?Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterZebra
He does have a dyno now though.
This is the first lap of Parker '73. Note the boat is completely out of the water and the motor is tucked under as far as it goes. Jimbo driving 1 handed, waving to the Merc pits. One of the best rotary pictures.Attachment 490630
@Rotary John
Yes, its a great picture. I think Jimbo is also waving at Jackie Wilson..:):iagree:
PS. This ScottiCraft does not have a full deck tunnel.
You can clearly see that.
https://www.screamandfly.com/attachm...0&d=1626716032
Lars: At Parker, Attachment 490638Jimbo's boat had slots in the front. You can get a good view of the slot at the very beginning of the Miami video. Posey's boat was a full front. The boat we used for testing in Fl. was Jimbo's black & white Scotti that was a full front. If I remember Jimbo said it was narrow, not as wide as other Scotti's. Rick McKinley blew it over and destroyed it latter on. This was Posey's boat for parker. The pickle fork boats didn't come till '74 Paris. You posted Posey's Paris boat and this is Wood's Paris Boat-both pickleAttachment 490639 forks.
Outboard Marine Corporation 4 Rotor: The Real Story - YouTube
A video about the OMC rotaries
Hi JohnQuote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
Whats the issue with horizontal crank and oil lubed versus vertical and fuel oil lubricated?
There are 2 basic types of rotary engines. Oil cooled rotor and charge cooled rotor. In the oil cooled type, oil is circulated inside the rotor to cool it. With a pressurized oil system, the engine can use Babbit bearings like most automotive engines. Oil cooling requires oil seal to prevent the oil from escaping into the combust chamber and burned. It also requires an oil pump and cooler to reject the heat gathered from the rotor cooling. All of this adds to the weight, increased friction Hp., cost and complexity. The upside is the intake charge can be inducted directly into the chamber resulting in very high volumetric efficiency. The orientation of the crank has no bearing on the engine other than for oil return. Most of the automotive rotary engines are oil cooled, aka Mazda.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabout
The charged cool rotor uses the intake charge to pass thru to rotor to cool it. This eliminates the requirement for oil seals, the oil pump and cooler and the sump. Because of no pressurized oil system Babbit bearings can not be used and roller and/or ball bearings are required to support the rotor and crankshaft. The upside is a much simpler and less costly engine. The down side is a significant reduction in volume metric efficiency due to the torturous path the charge must take to get to the intake chamber and the heating of the charge as it cools the rotor. In addition oil must be mixed with the gas to lubricate the bearings. Once again the crank orientation makes no difference.
Thus for outboard use the weight, cost and simplicity makes the charged cool rotor the best choice.
Hope this make sense.
As a side note to the above about oil cooled engines. OMC actually started it's development work with the oil cooled rotor type. We had a 100 CID 2 rotor running as both an outboard and a stern drive producing in excess of 200 HP. The cost of the outboard version was significantly higher that the current 2 strokes. The I/O version competed with the cost of the automotive engines currently being used. In addition the 200 HP engine allowed the dog house to be removed and a full width rear seat with the engine under it. Because of the weight reduction it would out perform a V-8 in all be top end speed. Because the volumes of the I/O could not justify the tooling and the outboard version was too expensive, the oil cooled program was dropped.
Thanks JohnQuote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
These days lighter engine means an OMC V8 is normal weight, perhaps today a boosted oil cooled rotary would fit right in?
RJ - You should write a bio book on the OMC Rotary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotary John
Have you seen this John?
Looks/sounds very impressive.
Have heard of similar before but don’t think any have made it through prototype stages.
The good is, the man behind the design has the background and knowledge.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/mot...bike-unveiled/