whatever happened to affordable fast boats?

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Originally Posted by DangerNewb

Nothing is cheap.

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The only thing that is cheap is the wages people are getting paid at fast food restaurants (so they say).
They complain that is not a living wage, and they can’t raise their family on such low wages. When I was growing up fast food restaurants were jobs for high school kids and college kids.

Nowadays, people think they should be buying a house and raising a family working at a fast food restaurant. Of course, in my area it’s 99% Mexicans working in restaurants that can barely speak English.

So another thought is - besides naturally everything getting bigger just like cars, you have SUV/mid size cars selling now, where everyone wants something bigger, the price will be higher for something like that, well the cars are more reliable and have better technology,,,,

I think you've seen that with boats, as now they have huge fishing/pleasure boats, very few small runabout or traditional ski boats anymore, the manufacturers are now adding so many different amenities and options to the boats, naturally the price goes up, infusion technology, composite building I think drives the price up, you no longer have cheap production trying to get as many boats out the door as possible like the hot markets of the 80s and 90s,,,,

I mean look at Hydrostream you could argue that the quality of the builds were terrible but then again look how many are still around, they might have found the best of both worlds, cheap materials and building process to get as many boats as they could and look now you can still get them cheap enough (with work needed usually)

Maybe boat manufactures need to offer bare bone models with enough quality using wood, without the new technology like infusion, sell it cheap and who cares how long the new owner has it for....there is such a thing as planned obsolescence :D

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Originally Posted by Aaronhl

So another thought is - besides naturally everything getting bigger just like cars, you have SUV/mid size cars selling now, where everyone wants something bigger, the price will be higher for something like that, well the cars are more reliable and have better technology,,,,

I think you've seen that with boats, as now they have huge fishing/pleasure boats, very few small runabout or traditional ski boats anymore, the manufacturers are now adding so many different amenities and options to the boats, naturally the price goes up, infusion technology, composite building I think drives the price up, you no longer have cheap production trying to get as many boats out the door as possible like the hot markets of the 80s and 90s,,,,

I mean look at Hydrostream you could argue that the quality of the builds were terrible but then again look how many are still around, they might have found the best of both worlds, cheap materials and building process to get as many boats as they could and look now you can still get them cheap enough (with work needed usually)

Maybe boat manufactures need to offer bare bone models with enough quality using wood, without the new technology like infusion, sell it cheap and who cares how long the new owner has it for....there is such a thing as planned obsolescence :D

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IMHO full infusion is the cheapest and fastest way to build along with easily repeatable quality.
if you want lighter and stronger then various cores will jack the price up.

$4.58 for 2 White Castle fish, hold the cheese, ( it is Lent ya know) WTF???

Cheap hulls are one thing but when a new 225 is $25k………..

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Originally Posted by powerabout

IMHO full infusion is the cheapest and fastest way to build along with easily repeatable quality.
if you want lighter and stronger then various cores will jack the price up.

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I’ve done bagging and I’ve done infusion, and they take more time than standard Layup and it’s more expensive. That’s been my experience, I’ve never done anything as large as a hull.

I’ve done both.


Bagged 28’ hulls, decks etc and small parts.

Way more time in prep, bags, vac I’m hose, pumps etc and labor cuz once you start, you can’t like you can open mold.
As in, stage the lamination stack.

People think w/infusion you close the mold and turn on a pump!

On a 28’ hull it took 5 of us, 2 days of labor for prep, then a day for the actual infusion then a day to clean up, another part people don’t consider.
It takes special cloth to get the resin (also special) to flow as well.

The bags don’t just peel off.
Then every place the bag folded, you had a supply hose attached, you have to grind out once the bags removed.

Maybe 3 times the labor of open mold construction??

Either way, tons of expensive material (we used either two or three 55 gl drums of resin on the hills!) and labor.

Someone….., Bayliner maybe “roto molding” a small hull to see it it’d work.
Like they make cheap lawn furniture.

No cloth, just liquid, in a closed mold that they spin to fill all areas of the mold.
It worked but the sides of the full had waves like a $20 Walmart trash can!

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Originally Posted by Stoker boy

I’ve done bagging and I’ve done infusion, and they take more time than standard Layup and it’s more expensive. That’s been my experience, I’ve never done anything as large as a hull.

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Laying up a project with visible carbon fiber is really fun.

Attachment 517206

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Originally Posted by Instigator

Cheap hulls are one thing but when a new 225 is $25k………..

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This is a big part of the problem when looking at the smaller fast boat market. There are close to zero full fledged OEM's. If you want to buy a new Euro or other hull and hang a new motor on the back, you buy it and all the rigging separately thru a dealer at a markup, rather than the builder packaging it all together with much better pricing to begin with from Merc. I can guarantee you that OEM pricing on a 225 is nowhere near $25k

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Originally Posted by David

Performance Boat Revolution: What Happened to the Affordable Performance Boat? — Wave To Wave

I suppose this is not a new topic, but it's a good article so I posted the link.

We used to have a bunch of small Ontario builders: Canadian Edition (Hydrostream under license), Panther (Checkmate under license), Sidewinder, J-Craft, Charger, and Scorpion come to mind. I may have missed a couple. The only one left is J-Craft, which has been re-formed and is now making a 21' outboard water ski boat.

One could buy a new Hydrostream or SRV from John Spaeth, but few do. Lack of advertising or lack of demand?

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Good article. Thanks for sharing.

I didn’t even start in boating until most of the way through 2008. But thanks to S&F, I was brought up right. And in the spirit of that article, and a little hard work searching, I’ve got my small performance boats and proper lightweight carb motors that go properly with them. And I’m a very happy bloke because of it.

I did find this line in article kind of sad:

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Allison Boats does not make sport boats anymore due to the fact that there no appropriate engines for their hulls.

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Because the only boat left on my dream list is an XB2003, with a 2.5/200 carb motor.

-Peter

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Originally Posted by pcrussell50

Good article. Thanks for sharing.

I didn’t even start in boating until most of the way through 2008. But thanks to S&F, I was brought up right. And in the spirit of that article, and a little hard work searching, I’ve got my small performance boats and proper lightweight carb motors that go properly with them. And I’m a very happy bloke because of it.

I did find this line in article kind of sad:


Because the only boat left on my dream list is an XB2003, with a 2.5/200 carb motor.

-Peter

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Darus hates my Grandsport with the 300 XS on it even though I have told him and Nancy many times that if they would finish the 24' grandsport, I am ready to send the cash. He and others on here also told me I was suicidal when I pulled off the cable steering and replaced it with SeaStar hydraulic [which became standard on all new ABoats just 4 years later]. I now have close to 400 hours on my 300XS [over 2000 hours on the Grandsport] and have managed to keep the Wet side wet/Dry side dry.

I don't really blame Darus since every TV commercial is another ambulance chasing lawyer promising free money......

transoms broke off...

I never heard of a transom failure on an Allison. I did hear of the engine bolts being pulled through and they issued a upgrade kit. Jack had a beautiful A Boat that got hit from the rear by a car and dropped the engine/transom into the backseat. I think he was able to reinstall the transom....

no, allies are pretty tough little boats. my 18 bass boat would be fast if it had more than 50 hp on it...