Phantom 25 - 400R / 450R / 500R

Hi!

I have a 450R 2021 model, and it is in its 4th season. The warranty expire spring 2026, and I am quietly looking at options for it. Either 400R or 500R. The price difference is approx USD 15,000 between the 400R and 500R. I have a 40 years old V hull that runs 94 mph on a good day with the 450R spinning a 27 pitch Max5 to 6300 rpms. We expect approx 91 mph with the 400R and 97-100 mph with the 500R depending on prop. I think I need to buy a 5 blade CNC cleaver to secure a safe ride with the 500R. And that prop is approx USD 3,500 more than a Max5.

Do you have any experience with the 400R / 450R / 500R engines. As far as I can see the V10 400R have a good punch and fuel milage https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...lies/smile.gif

Cheeers Toffen

Attachment 532888 :thumbsup:

I sit in awe again at how many engines have been on that Phantom. I have had 3 on my SS2000, so Ihave a long way to go.

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Originally Posted by David

I sit in awe again at how many engines have been on that Phantom. I have had 3 on my SS2000, so Ihave a long way to go.

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Which three and what were the performance differences? As an Allison lover, very curious.

MDS

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Originally Posted by Toffen

Hi!

I have a 450R 2021 model, and it is in its 4th season. The warranty expire spring 2026, and I am quietly looking at options for it. Either 400R or 500R. The price difference is approx USD 15,000 between the 400R and 500R. I have a 40 years old V hull that runs 94 mph on a good day with the 450R spinning a 27 pitch Max5 to 6300 rpms. We expect approx 91 mph with the 400R and 97-100 mph with the 500R depending on prop. I think I need to buy a 5 blade CNC cleaver to secure a safe ride with the 500R. And that prop is approx USD 3,500 more than a Max5.

Do you have any experience with the 400R / 450R / 500R engines. As far as I can see the V10 400R have a good punch and fuel milage https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...lies/smile.gif

Cheeers Toffen

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I have to ask, is just leaving it as-is not an option?

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Originally Posted by mikesufka

Which three and what were the performance differences? As an Allison lover, very curious.

MDS

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150 XR4 Merc, with G force tuner and Boyeson reeds, small 1.78 gearcase
225 Promax, 1.87 coned CLE gearcase
200XS ROS, 1.75 fat shaft sportmaster

I thought the acceleration with the XR4 was fine until I swapped out for the Promax. It turned a 31 Hoss Triton and a 30 small ear chopper to 6000 rpm.

I never drove the Promax any faster than the XR4. With more engine height, it probably would have gone faster. The acceleration was much better than the XR4. I stopped chasing the 'big number' and mostly accelerated hard into the 80s. The Promax liked fuel a lot. Premium premix, so on long cruises, I had to take jerry cans.

The 200XS is perfect. It's the most fuel efficient. I've been 93, but almost always stop at 90. Between the taller gears and the much lower idle speed, it does not have the snap out of the hole of the Promax. After that, seat of the pants, there is little difference.

Maybe Jimboat or someone could explain why the Tuff runs better with big motors and the SS2000 runs better with small motors. Or maybe there is not enough data to say for sure that is the case. We'll see how close to 90 they get with the chipped Yamaha.

But this is a Phantom thread. Please list all the engines, performance differences, and the whys of the repowers.

What is the Pad like on a Tuff? Let us face it: Only 12 inches should touch beyond 90mph in the Allison. We know the rounded pad makes the Allison quirkiness at the top end, with an 11.5 Flat pad on my boats anyone can drive with ease, one-handed.
I did a lot of reading years ago. The US Navy concluded that flat is fast and efficient. A little concave with a transition to flat is nice, too.

My motor builder Tommy Dunn won Mod Production at Jasper one year driving Doc Tripps old boat, It was a gift from Doc after his death from Pancreatic cancer, I said you sure had a smooth ride in some ruff water, He said I was working my A$$ off to make it LOOK that way.;):cheers:

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Originally Posted by Sutphil

I have to ask, is just leaving it as-is not an option?

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Hi!

I like warranty as repair in Norway is very expensive indeed. But some insurance companies offers insurance for driveline and block for 10 years. So I will check out.

The boat is now 40 years old. The following motors been on it:

Johnson V8 300 GT 3,6 liter - 76 mph
Promax 300 SVS - 76 mph
2 x Merc 2.5 EFI SS with PCU - 86 mph
Verado 350 Sci - 81 mph
Verado 400R - 88 mph
Verado 450R - 94 mph

Cheers Toffen

Is the new 400 generally faster than the old 400?

You could try a Hill cleaver for less coin than a Merc cleaver. Wildman recommends them. Of course his Liberator tunnels are not at all like your boat.

Toffen, I would just keep the 450. Just put the extra money you would spend, in the bank for repairs on the 450 if needed. Lol On another topic,my wife and I just retired. Her father was from Mandal. She has this bucket list trip she wants us to do. She wants to go to Norway. It would be pretty cool to get a ride in that boat of yours.

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Originally Posted by GaryConn

Toffen, I would just keep the 450. Just put the extra money you would spend, in the bank for repairs on the 450 if needed. Lol On another topic,my wife and I just retired. Her father was from Mandal. She has this bucket list trip she wants us to do. She wants to go to Norway. It would be pretty cool to get a ride in that boat of yours.

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Good point. I all depends what I can get for my 450R as well. Just send me a PM and I am happy to do spin with you :)

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Originally Posted by Toffen

Good point. I all depends what I can get for my 450R as well. Just send me a PM and I am happy to do spin with you :)

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I have run the new 500R and it is the most impressive outboard that I have ever run. People mistakenly compare it to the 450R but it is a completely different engine and package. The ARC (advanced racing core) is a completely new midsection that keeps the engine amazingly solid. The new 5.88 Sport M gearcase is a beast with a huge skeg. The rotating assembly is different as is the intake and supercharger. It makes more than 500hp easily as I saw over 50gph and the power is jawdropping.

I know the price is crazy but in my opinion you have to go with the 500R to complete your testing. It should give you 100mph.

Hi!

Thanks. The good thing is that I most likely than use my max5 ST 15,25 x 27 prop :) And save some money there :)

I think we can get the ol lady over 100 mph with a CNC 5bl cleaver. I need to sleep on it, although that's not easy. Ha ha.

Do you know the fuel consumption at mid rpm? 3500 / 4000 / 4500?

Cheeers Toffen