'04 22 Velocity prop choice w/300x

[Lance Woodke]

I have an '04 Velocity with an '04 300x on a 5" CMC setback jackplate. I currently run a 24 three blade Mercury Lightning ET. I have seen 80.0 mph on GPS alone in the boat with 1/4 tank of fuel. RPM is around 6500. With a passenger and 1/2 to full fuel, I can get 77. At 6000 RPM the boat runs about 70. I also have a 25" four blade Trophy but can only get around 6200 RPM and 72-74 MPH. Steve Stepp was quoted in a magazine saying that Trophy would get the boat to 85. Bull Sh*t!
Any suggestions for more speed from someone who has experience with the later model Velocity hulls? I have talked to people at Velocity and they said that they didn't have any recorded information on propeller set-up for that boat.

[wideglide55]

I'd look for a Mazco RE-4 about 26 or 28 pitch, my buddy has one with a V-8 and uses a RE-4 28P, he pulls people on the tube with it then blasts for home without a prop change.

[wideglide55]

That boat needs bow lift and you got enough motor to lift it, you just need enough prop to get it up. I'd start just a little below the pad and adjust to even or slightly above.

[amityray]

I have an 89 Velocity 22 with a 300 promax. I Run a 24 Trophy plus and see 77 mph (gps) @ 6300rpms. I"m running 12 inches of setback. I think you need to add another 6 inches of setback. I gained another 4-5 mph just by just adding the extra 6 inches. Also that was with running the engine at 3 inches below the pad. I don't think the 300 will turn anything larger than a 24. I've tried a 25 and 26 trophy along witha 26 big ear chopper. It seems to like the 24 trophy best. The 25 and 26 was just too big. From what I've learned from my set up , these hull need more setback to get any bow lift.If you're running 80 gps thats going to be very close to the best you're going to get. I think 83 gps is the best speed I've seen posted for someone with a similar setup.

[amityray]

Also....what gear case are you running? If you have a sportmaster find someone that would want to trade for a torquemaster. If your running under 85mph the sportmaster is not the best for you. A touquemaster or fleetmaster would be much better.

[22VelocityProMax300]

Lance, I have a 22 Velocity with a 300,your boat can run 85mph.Amityray is right on the money what he is saying about set back. I added a 6" setback along with my 6" Bobs machine shop jackplate. I picked up 4mph and improved the handling alot. I have gotten my best speed with a 26" mercury chopper modified by DAH.83 mph at 6200 rpms. You also might want to check your bottom to make sure you do not have a hook, this will prevent you from getting the bow lift you need.I have have found out that you can run some high mph numbers if you have your passenger sit in the left hand side of the back seat ,it will help with your boats balance point-further rear. I tried a few years ago at a mercury prop testing session a 26" lightning ET . This prop ran terrible,it is designed for a light fast bass boat. If you have Hydraulic steering make sure you have adjusted out all the play, so that you can drive the boat. The last 4-5 mph are tough to get, but you can get there. Frank sr

[150aintenuff]

lance 1 questions???? why didnt you keep yer same login as you have at NW???? 2ndly welcome aboard...

If ya check yer mail before ya leave tomarrow morning I have my 24 big ear on evans boat... it aint perfect but its testable... i noticed the short setback but didnt say anything... an FYI to save ya money if ya go more set back... the 10" manual CMC makes is IDENTICAL in the setback portion as the powerlift... and I can get it fer ya if ya need... and yes yer sportmaster looks good on the trailer but I am glad i wasnt the ownly one sayin it was unnecessary.....


Guys I have seen the boat run, and with the lightning ET it carries the bow VERY well.. supprising really.... so i dont think hook is an issue....
also one mor thing for everyone to consider... he boats in an area known for 2-6' wind and or rolling swell, so when it gets airborne it must fly straight and flat... and it does fairly well at that from what i have seen at this point.....


once again welcome aboard jetpilot....

[jerry]

for starters get the rpms up to 6800 , that is where the motor makes power. what gears do you have ? the ET wont work good on that boat ! get a smaller trophy and get your rpms up up up .....

[SUPERBASH]

Asssuming you're spinning 1:75's...23 TrophyPlus will give you great performance/speed/rpm's.
24x14 1/2" ChopperII or 23REVOLUTION4 should get above 80+. Then again....you're running damn good the way it is... http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/5347/bash5vi.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[jerry]

and if you keep running it 6000 at full speed you will blow the motor...

[fastercat]

you must be runing 1.62to 1 gears i wood go to 1.75to 1 and run a 14.5 30 pitch 4 blade chopper with power jack plate.go to prop slip calculator the numbers are a lot better.bigger pitch at 6800rpm bigger speeds ;) this is my two cents but the numbers are the way to speed.you may even go to 32 pitch.

[jerry]

he could never ever spin a 30 in prop unless he bought one of herbs boats . if he is spinning a 25 trophy at 6200prms and has 1.62 gears , the switch to 1.75 would only get his rpms to about 6600-6700 at best ,still spinning the same 25 trophy . he would have to go down to a 24p to get in the 6800rpm range . and jerrys advice is worth more than 2 cents , jerry will send you a bill !!!! ohhhhh yes if you have a sportmaster , get rid of it IT WONT WORK !!!!!!!

[Lance Woodke]

My Sportmaster has 1.62:1 ratio. Two friends of mine have identical boats, however, they have 10" setback. Their boats don't handle the rough water as well. One of them has 1.75:1 gears so he can run a higher pitch prop but has only seen 81-82.
I do a lot of poker runs and stability in rough water is important. I think that more setback would jeopardize that. This is not a lake boat. It is run in the Puget Sound which is saltwater and the water can get rough at times. These boats already have a tendancy to go nose high when airborn. More setback would only make that worse. I run the motor around 6000 RPM during poker runs. Someone said that will blow the motor. What good is a 300x if you can't run it fast? The motor has 70 hrs on it and no problems. I change the gear oil about every 20 hrs.
I appreciate your comments and look forward to learning more. Every bit of information helps in this sport. Thanks.

[Lance Woodke]

It sounds like the lower unit is as much of a factor as prop selection. Are you guys using Torquemaster lower units?

[Toffen]

Hi!

Have you ever thought of mounting a ballast tank in front of your boat. They can be made very very light (a couple of kilos), and will make your high sea drivin' much easier. Then you can extend the setback, and get most of both worlds - handling in high seas and top speed.

I have a Phantom 25 with a PM 300 SVS. I have a ballast tank, but still only use 7,5 inches of setback due to the overall balance. I have tried 12 inches, and it was a handful to drive. So testing will tell anyway.

Now I have bought two Merc 2.5 EFI engines, so this a different story - and speed!

Good Luck!

Cheeers, Toffen G :D

[SUPERBASH]

Lance...You originally asked how you can get more speed...without mentioning 1) your location 2) your propshaft centerline 3) your gearcase style 4) your gear ratio 5) ruffwater/flat water desireability

Its a give & take. Like we said. 80 sounds good the way it is. A 4blade will handle ruff so much better than that E/T while still giving top speed.

6000rpm. you misunderstood jerry. He stated running a 300X WOT @ 6000rpm that is meant to hit 6800 will put unneccesssary loads on the motor & case..resulting in failure.

AmityRay answered the TM/SM question.

-Bashhttp://img438.imageshack.us/img438/5347/bash5vi.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[jerry]

toffen has not taken his medicine in a while , ignore him lol

now you have to get rid of the sportmaster it wont work , so get a stock case with 1.75 gears so you can use your friends props to see waht size you will need . you dont want to run the motor at spped only going 6000rpms . if you keep doing it you will go BOOM !

[Lance Woodke]

My RPM at WOT is 65-6600 with one passenger and 1/2 tank of gas. I use 92 octane if that matters. My prop shaft centerline is run about 2" below the pad. I have to lower the motor/jackplate to get on a plane and then raise it once planing, otherwise the prop cavitates very bad. Is that normal? The Puget Sound where I boat in Washington state is at sea level.

[Lance Woodke]

Also, is the Sportmaster hurting my performance at every speed? Does it affect my boat's handling? I don't know if this makes any difference but I installed Dana Marine LT500 trim tabs which are 16" long. They really help keep the boat settled when the water gets rough.

[jerry]

get your wot 6800-6900 with 1 person and a 1/2 tank . jerry likes the handling of stock gearcase much better at least on his boat at all speeds , you dont have to fight to drive the boat . you HAVE to use 92 octane in all 300x's , they come with a sticker on the intake saying so. do you have a problem planing off with the trophy ? if so , do you have the vent holes plugged or unplugged ?
make sure that your tabs are not hitting while in the up position .

[blkmtrfan]

Welcome to S&F Lance :)


Do you have the one with the flames:

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50413


Back on this thread:

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51068&highlight=velocity

Car guy stated that he bought one that did 92 :confused: :confused:

Do you know him?, I think Joe does :confused: :confused:

BTW hope to run into you on the water sometime, Scott

[Lance Woodke]

No, the flamed boat isn't mine. My friend in Gig Harbor owns it. That boat porpises terribly. He has tried different set-backs and props to no success. A fiberglass guy surveyed the bottom and said that it had been dropped and repaired, probably at the factory. To be fixed correctly will cost him around $1500 to $2000. Everyone who has seen both of our boats run and/or ridden in both agree that the flamed boat has serious bottom issues. My Velocity is all white. It was originally purchased by Jim Milgard of Milgard Windows. I bought it from Power Boats NW with about 15 hrs on it last year. I know the Carguys. His boat supposedly ran 92 from the guy he bought it from in Georgia. There was no cabin, just bare stringers and with 10" of setback, it handled very scary. He has since had the V-berth finished but he doesn't run the boat in poker runs, nor have we ever raced. He says he has only seen 82 on GPS. It has a Sportmaster with 1.62 ratio like mine. He made the mistake of not flying there to look at it and test drive it.
Luckily, my boat handles well, I just want the best set-up for the way I use it and I am getting good technical advice on this site. There are not a lot of these boats in the northwest. Because of the water conditions, most people run larger I/Os. My two friends that have the same boat aren't much help to me because their boats handle so differently/poorly.

[blkmtrfan]

That is wild about the flamed one :eek:

You would think if it was dropped at the factory, that Velocity would stepp up (pun intended) and fix the darn thing, I do know that NW Joe and Velocity had a falling out ...

Interesting that carguy only claims 82 now, but when compared to your speed it sounds right in there.

You are right about not too many of these kinds of boats around here, but I think they are a great compromise between small "speed boat" and big "offshore boat". I do have to agree that if you are only boating in the sound a larger boat would be better, but I love also boating on the lakes and the columbia river and being small enough to tow anywhere.

If we do get a chance to beat in the same area (not sure what town you live in, you should fill in your location in the user cp) I would like to try your 24p et and you may want to try a few of my props, I have a large barrel trophy 23p and small barrel trophy plus 23p and a mazco RE3 24p.

There is a lot of info about the older Velocities on this site, use the search function and see what you find.


Also "Liquidfly's" brother "Big Nick" has a newer style Velocity and has tired just about every prop made, perhaps shoot him a PM and see if he can help.

[Lance Woodke]

I,m in Tacoma. I am "jetpilot" on NW Offshore if you visit that site. There are a lot of pictures in the gallery on NW Offshore that show my boat at speed. I have a red and blue airforce logo on the side and a red #22 towards the bow. I just ran the New Years' Day run from Silverdale to Poulsbo yesterday. There was a good show of outboards as the water is usually pretty calm but it got a little rough in the afternoon. The two Hydrostreams that showed up didn't fare well in the chop. Would like to run with you. What can your boat do?

[jerry]

ok you guys can hug and kiss later , lets get back to setup !!! hahahaah...

[blkmtrfan]

Thanks for the support and understanding Jerry :p

Unlike LI NY there isn't a couple thousand SOB's in a 1-mile radius with hundreds of props sitting around that you can try :p :p

Anyway, I thought I was talking about setups with possible props to try, in fact I believe someone earily posted that he should try a 23p trophy and as I said, I have both styles ...

I also understand the desire to keep the setback to as little as needed to keep the rough water handling at its best, which is one of the reasons I have never added a jack

Lance with my current configuration our speeds are pretty compareable, although I would expect you to be able to take a little rougher water since the Velocity is a big 22' (from what I understand stepp tried to take the bottom from a larger hull so the actual running surface is similar to a larger boat)

So how was the run yesterday, the weather was crap most of the day up here and really windy...

[Lance Woodke]

I will try some different props suggested if I can find some locally. I am interested to try a Torquemaster. What gearcase to you run blkmtrfan?

[fastercat]

i do not know whey they think the sportmaster is hurting top end?????????????????????it is the high perf unit with nose and low water pick up the fletmaster is not over 80 you will have prop blow out??????????.just my two cents ;)

[jerry]

you have to run at least 85 to get a sportmaster to work and you must be able to jack it out of the water at top speed . a boat that will run 80-83 will benifit from it .

[blkmtrfan]

I am currently running a sportsmaster as well

[jerry]

did you try a stock case ? and arent you running a 2.5 / jerry thinks that the 2.5 case is not quite as fat as a 3.0 l

[blkmtrfan]

did you try a stock case ? and arent you running a 2.5 / jerry thinks that the 2.5 case is not quite as fat as a 3.0 l

Since I am running the 2.5....

I have not had the opportunity to try a stock case as I would need a torqmaster to get the low water pickups, and to be honest I don't know anybody who has one for a 2.5.

The very common 2.5 fleetmaster, which I could find, only has the side case water inlets so it would be tough to get a fair comparison with the motor so deep :confused:

[fastercat]

are you runing 1.75 gears?????

[jeffbare]

Lance, If You Want To Try My 26" Mazco Re4 I Have Just Let Me Know. We Had A Good Time At The Silverdale Poker Run, Really Glad I Headed Back When I Did.
Jeff

[150aintenuff]

Since I am running the 2.5....

I have not had the opportunity to try a stock case as I would need a torqmaster to get the low water pickups, and to be honest I don't know anybody who has one for a 2.5.

The very common 2.5 fleetmaster, which I could find, only has the side case water inlets so it would be tough to get a fair comparison with the motor so deep :confused:


look at the optimax???? I know the 3L come with the LWP in the nose, but not sure about the 2.5's.... scot on yer bote you should be able to get a stock case with the top half plugged as high as ya run.. ya gots enough steback....

Jerry Lances bote runs VERY WELL with the lightning ET... it carries the bow VERY well, and looks like it runs very smooth even in the 2+ wind waves we had on the 1st... I dont really think a RE or a trophy will help... maybe a 23 ET to get the RPM to 6800 but that is about it...

[150aintenuff]

heres a pic, not the best because he was mid turn, and trimmed down slightly but ya get the idea.. it is lifting fairly flat...

http://www.nwoffshore.com/photopost/data/565/6150053_1_.JPG

[22VelocityProMax300]

Lance. It looks as though in the picture that their is 3 people in the boat . Trust me, after 20 years of dialing in a velocity,the fastest speed will be with 2 persons, the passenger needs to be in the rear seat opposite the driver. Here is a Quick story, A few years ago before they shut down Lake X, I talked with their Director of Operations, Robert Moore, He told me that they use the 22 Velocity for running various tests on their 300X's and the best top speed and all around handling prop was a 26"trophy plus. He said the top speed they showed was 85 mph ,the prop was stock and had not been blueprinted.The following summer I had a chance to see the boat up at Mercury Racing in Fond Du Lac,It had a permanent set back plate but not a hydraulic plate mounted on the transom. There were 3 changes to that boat that I would have made to bring the top speed up even higher, a hydraulic plate, the trophy prop would have been blueprinted and the sportsmaster lower unit skeg would have been re configured.Frank sr

[150aintenuff]

that day there was 3 people, THUS my comment about it not being the best picture...

[Lance Woodke]

That picture was taken on a cruising day. I have seen 78-79 with one passenger and 1/2 tank of fuel. I really want to try a torquemaster lower. Everyone here says that is the way to go for better speed and handling at all RPMs. I just need to find one to trade or try. Then I can try some different props. I would like to try a four blade. Jeff, thanks for the offer and we need to get out and run on a nice day.



Lance

[Lance Woodke]

Frank, Sr.:
Do you know what gear ratio was in the sportmaster of Mercury's test boat?

[Liqui-Fly]

Fact of the matter is these boats aren't all that fast. Sportmaster, torqumaster, Trophy, Revolution, ET....the best you can hope for is around 80-85 mph if you put tons of effort into it. Getting rid of a Sportmaster to get a Torquemaster is stupid at best. Getting to 80.9 instead of 80.8 while sacrificing handling isn't worth it.

His does low 80's (all the time with loads) with 4" of setback, a blueprinted 21 Revolution 4 and a sportmaster.

[Liqui-Fly]

Check out pics 5517-5520

http://www.adirondackimages.net/AIR/Lake/index.html

[Lance Woodke]

Thanks Liqui-Fly. I am not concerned with getting every last MPH. I do a lot of poker runs and just want the best speed at every RPM. I can drive my boat fine with the sportmaster. What is your brother's set-up? Lower unit, ratio, prop, speeds, etc?



Thanks

[Lance Woodke]

Great pictures. I have seen that boat on here somewhere at idle speed. Looks cool without a wind screen but in the northwest, that wind protection it gives me is nice. Sounds like your brother has tried everything.

[fastercat]

you need to know your gear ratio i think by the pitch prop you have been trying the gears are 1.65to1.i had a 205 spectra checkmate with pm 300 it did 85mph all day on a com day.you have a faster bottom you should be going faster and turning bigger pitch prop i ran a 29 spinelli prop 1.75 gears turning 6400rpm near the limmiter.all boats are different so this is just my two cents pitch=rpm=speed= :D

[22VelocityProMax300]

Lance, Mercury was using a 1.62 Sportmaster, the same as I run. I notice that when I raise the Sportmaster on the jackplate to 1" inch below the pad that is when I am able to get the last 200 to 300 rpms and my best speeds. I know that when I first had my 26" Trophy, I had it too deep and it would only turn 6000 RPMs. You might be running into the same situation preventing you from reaching 6800 RPMs.Frank sr

[Lance Woodke]

I will be doing some more prop testing while keeping the sportmaster because I can get a hold of props a lot easier than a different lower unit. I may be somewhat conservative with my motor height and will try to run it higher. I have a water pressure gauge and Smartcraft to moniter psi.

Too bad it is Janurary and the Seattle area is getting a lot of liquid sunshine.

I will report my findings with different props as soon as I can.

[150aintenuff]

stream should be done soon, so me,evan any you can do a few runs around the south sound doing set up....

[JnT]

I have been working the Atlanta Boat show and had the opportunity to meet Peter Dean with Propco Proppelers. He is a very knowledgeable ex racer with around 16 Championship titles.
Contact him at http://propcopropellers.com/
He has a 4 blade prop that could possibly work for you.

[SCT]

Lance,

I had a 21' Checkmate Pulsare 2100 w/ a 300X and my best speed was 91(GPS). I could run high 80s all the time.

I would think the Velocity would be lighter and have a more efficient hull then the CM. Are you sure the engine is making rpm? What is the advertised weight of the boat?

Best of luck.

[150aintenuff]

91 in a 21 CM.... that is WAY fast for that hull... was it a potato chip???? most Ive seen run around 80 with the 300... similar speeds to lances boat.. 91 is very impressive....

[jerry]

Lance,

I had a 21' Checkmate Pulsare 2100 w/ a 300X and my best speed was 91(GPS). I could run high 80s all the time.

I would think the Velocity would be lighter and have a more efficient hull then the CM. Are you sure the engine is making rpm? What is the advertised weight of the boat?

Best of luck.
ahhahahahaahahhaah......................................

[Lance Woodke]

Velocity only has the weight with an I/O on their website of 3200 lbs. I don't know what the boat weighs with a 300. Haven't had a chance to test any other props. I was out of town the one sunny day we have had in the NW in almost a month. Rain is getting old, even for people that are used to it.

[stokernick]

27 days of rain,better build an ark!Noah,''what's a cubit?'':p :eek: :D

[blkmtrfan]

Thanks for the tip Nick :rolleyes: :D


Yes it is raining again today :(

[150aintenuff]

as of today we are at 33 of 34 days of rain here ... 2 weeks ago wednesday it didnt QIUTE make enough to read on the rain gauge so it didnt count..